This is just one perspective, but people-pleasing is when you go overboard with being considerate of others – to the point that you lose yourself. So like the one friend who will say they like all the same things as you, say yes to everything, never disagree, etc. just because they desperately need you to like them. They don’t have boundaries, so even when someone hurts them, they’re like “it’s okay, I don’t mind!” They’re missing a bit of self-respect.

There’s nothing wrong with being kind or considerate of others! It’s really important to have to form deeper relationships. The problem is when seeming ‘nice’ takes the place of your personality or being honest about your real self, because you value other’s validation more. People can sense that and it can put them off because they want to get to know the real person. People-pleasers can play the character that they think others want them to be, instead of putting in the work to like and value themselves and communicate their own needs and boundaries.

Are you harming yourself or your own interests (eg: your friendships, your mental health) in order to appease others? If the answer is yes, you have a problem. If the answer is no, it’s a ‘them’ problem.

I also grew up in an abusive home–but I had a freeze/flee response to conflict.

So, there are several “defense” tactics when it comes to conflict. Fight, which you grew up with. Freeze (do nothing and hope they don’t notice you), Flee (leave the situation), and Fawn (people-pleasing).

When people say not to be a people-pleaser, they are generally talking to people who have an oversized urge to please as their defensive tactic. If you are a person where “fight” is your go-to, toning it down so you can properly interact with people isn’t a bad thing. It’s what YOU needed to do for YOU to gain necessary social skills.

But other people out there have “Fawn” as their defense mechanism. That is to say, whenever there’s conflict, they try to placate other people as their technique to de-escalate. And this becomes a situation FOR THEM where they erode their own boundaries trying to please other people whenever in conflict. It becomes a problem when other people take advantage of them because they tend to fawn and give other people things too much, and it causes harm in their life where work/spouses/friends abuse their placating nature. At that point, people who “fawn” need to try to do what you did with your fight response, and set more boundaries and say “no” more often without placating.

A good portion of “general advice” on the internet does not point out that “context matters”. But it really does, the patterns and personality and past of the person taking advice matters, and when it comes to someone who grew up in an abusive home learning how to master their defense mechanisms, different people will need different advice.

If you were truly as belligerent as you say before, I’d be honestly surprised if you over-corrected to the point of people-pleasing becoming a detriment, as it’s extremely hard to shake these things. They almost seem to be inborn personality traits that are ramped up into extremes if one is in an abusive situation. I have a friend who had a journey similar to yours, with a “fight” defense mechanism mode, and he’s done a TON of work breaking the “fight” response, but you can still catch him in moments where he goes into “asshole mode”.

And I’m the same, I’ve grown and improved, but I still default to “freeze” or “flee” in conflict situations that are especially stressful. (My growth has been embracing a “fight” response when necessary, and also a “fawn” response when necessary.) Him and I made opposite journeys…I learned to be more aggressive because it was necessary, and he toned his aggression down (because it was necessary to avoid driving away people he loved).

“People pleasing” is the sort of neurotic belief that people won’t like or value you if you’re not actively working to make them happy constantly. From the inside, you can manage it by:

• prioritizing self-care (pleasers tend to throw it to the wayside to care for others)

• limiting the people you seek to please (ie family and close friends, or people who reciprocate)

• reminding yourself that no one likes a doormat

But that doesn’t really address the root of the problem, which is externalizing our self-worth.

In my opinion, I always saw “people pleasing” as not having an opinion of your own and always just agreeing with whoever you are talking to.

There are ways to disagree with someone and not be abrasive about it. As long as you respect people’s opinions and don’t act like you are better than them because of their opinions, I feel like the rest falls into place. You can be inquisitive about your disagreeal, asking why they believe what they believe, and possibly lead them to what you believe. You can simply withhold your opinion until someone asks for it (and maybe even withhold it then). You can even agree to disagree (my personal favorite). What’s key is having a civilized discussion about a topic. It doesn’t always have to be a heated argument or even a debate - just a conversation.

You can also sometimes change your mind on something and realize you were wrong and they were right. If this your honest opinion, it isn’t “people pleasing” imo.

Lunch comes up as it often does. Your friend Salby suggests pizza, which takes too long for lunch to start with, but whatever. You’re gluten free so you pipe up and say sure, as long as it’s a place with gf crust, and they have a separate baking spot, and they use clean pizza cutters so there’s no cross contamination. Spoilers, such places are rare.

First scenario everyone is cool with going across town to the place you know is safe. It’s a normal conversation. Lunch takes 90m but that’s fine because no one has any conflicts.

Scenario 2, big meeting at 1 – fucking gross who does that – so it’s Pizza Basement which is a local minimum wage chain with teens who hate everything running the place.

People pleasing would be going along with #2 and just eating some wilted half cup side salad for lunch.

Scenario 2 you should’ve gone somewhere else or just passed on lunch. If Salby clocks that you stood up for yourself and they decide they don’t like that, you might have to regulate.

There’s a nice saying in the community of people who heal from childhood abuse: don’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm. I always found it to be a powerful and succinct way of describing toxic people pleasing.

A “people pleaser” personality means a person feels a strong urge to please others, even at their own expense. They may feel that their wants and needs do not matter or alter their personality around others.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/people-pleaser

Depends a lot on context.

I’m also a “self made social skills person”, although I can’t claim the same background or difficulty level as yours. But I am clearly a weirdo who can’t grasp half the unspoken social conventions, they require a lot of analysis on my part, so I get you.

“People pleaser” isn’t always a bad thing. You can tell by who is saying it and how, if they are making it sound like a selling point then it is. It can mean it’s someone helpful and charismatic.

If it’s used negatively it means a human doormat or bootlicker although without the loyalty to a person/group you’d expect from a bootlicker. Unlike the doormat, which is passive, the people pleaser will actively go out of their way to give you what you want. This is the person that wants to bring you a cup of coffee you never asked for, the person who will never disagree with anyone, the first one to raise their hand when there are errands to get through, etc.

Since they are willing to set aside their own wants to do what others want, they can be seen as lacking personal ambition and independence, or as someone who can’t be trusted since they are easily swayed.

At one extreme, one finds what you describe of your behavior from childhood. At another, one finds people pleasers, who compulsively elevate everyone else’s needs above their own.

You seem to have found a balance between the two. That’s probably good for you.

How to decide how much of each to do? That’s complex, meaning there are feedback loops. There is no right way. You bounce between too much and too little, you pay attention to your own reactions, and you converge towards a satisfying life. You do your best.

Does this help at all?

“Compassion for people’s emotional investment and their intellectual passion” - this is covered by "empathy, and it’s incredibly difficult to practice, so my sincere congratulations for working at it.

With everybody existing on a spectrum, you not pleasing people without limits will make you an a****** at some point. The limit is yours to figure out because you understand yourself best.

For me, I help people until or unless it is painfully obvious that they are taking advantage of a situation. I don’t personally mind someone taking a little advantage. But once it’s clear that they will not stop taking, I draw boundaries.

I think most people have different limits on how much they are willing to give and take. And you get to determine your own limits.

You set an initial boundary for yourself of how much you are willing to give and take and then remain consistently aware of progressive circumstances so that you can adjust your boundaries as necessary to your own health and well-being.

If you still feel good about yourself and you aren’t hurting anybody else, great.

It is much easier to set static boundaries and adjust as necessary than immediately shouldering a dynamic boundary that changes every minute with each situation.

I think people pleasing is when your whole identity and emotions are all based on someone else’s emotions.

If you completely lack the ability to be okay when anyone else in the room is not okay, then you might be a people pleaser. A people pleaser especially doesn’t know how to be okay when someone is disappointed in them.

You can still be kind and attentive to other people and take accountability for your actions without being thrown into mental and emotional chaos because someone else is feeling bad. This begins with realizing that other people’s thoughts and feelings should not always automatically hold more weight than your own thoughts and feelings. Yes, It can sometimes be good to consider how people are doing or the words they say about us, but you are also a human on this planet and how you’re doing deserves plenty of attention too—especially if nobody else in your life is genuinely caring for you.

The ideal healthy balance is being able to allow others to feel bad and not automatically feel shame, cast blame on yourself, or make it your own responsibility. People pleasers have made this a habit, and it takes time and practice to break down, but it’s such a simple and healthy place to be when you can start to approach situations with a clear head instead of constant internal shame.

So here’s the deal. Good boundaries around serving others versus serving yourself and how much effort to please people and all that, is something your brain can figure out instinctively once it’s healthy.

So your path to developing those boundaries, IMO, should be something like:

• Heal your trauma
• Then
• Trust your own perceptions and instincts about where the boundaries should be

Just like people pleasing feels safe and natural to you now, after you heal your trauma (which IS possible), holding your own boundaries will feel safe and natural in the same way.

You can spend your whole life coarsely emulating someone with healthy boundaries, or you can heal your trauma and fully embody those healthy boundaries from within.

Either of those paths is better than just continuing to be a people pleaser, but the latter path is the far better of the two, and takes less effort over the long run.

I’m not sure I’ll answer this exactly right but here’s my thought on your question.

People pleasing to the point that you almost always sacrifice your own wants and needs is the the kind of thing that is seen or talked about as problematic.

The goal is to find as fair a balance as possible between not being an asshole but also not always sacrificing your own wants and needs. It can be hard for some people who have a personality where they always take a back seat to what others want or need in social situations. They are true people pleasers in the negative sense of the word.

I think some people use the term people pleaser to simply refer to someone who is nice, but that’s inaccurate because just being nice and handling social situations well is great as long as you aren’t always sacrificing your own wants and needs.

I’ve been called a people pleaser many times. I’ve worked hard to find a better balance between my own needs and others. Now I know that I am instead just a very nice person, but am more than willing to put my own wants and needs first. It just took me a while to figure out that my wants and needs are just as important as others.

Like I said, balance can be hard, but I think most people will be just fine if they stick to the “don’t be an asshole” part.

Simple. Don’t kiss ass