Well, I lived in such conditions most of my adulthood before having a kid to care for, and it was possible precisely because it was just me. Either it was a small town not even close to a big city, or it was a small town at the outskirts of a big city, some 20-30km away. I loved it. Still do.

But it’s so hard to uproot once you have all the other stuff like not only your own job, but also your partner’s. And kid’s school or daycare or whatever. And then having to work out the bus routes for the small humans and figure whether or not it’d be plausible for them to adjust to that and not get burned out or lost or confused or whatever.

And once you need more space, it’s much harder to find places to rent in the small towns. Mostly for sale, if it’s beyond two bedrooms. And in that case it’s much more complicated since you need to go to the effort of getting the place evaluated, arranging the loans and finances so you can pull it off, and that’s a big decision since it’ll probably lock you in there for quite some while, because small towns don’t move houses fast if you decide to go, so you could be looking at years before you get the sale done and another mortgage.

It’s just so hard. Once you are in the city, it’s hard to leave. And the more you root in the city, the harder it gets.

I hate it. I hate the city. I hate most about it.

But I love my family and would suffer in a city until my death if that’s what it takes to keep it together.

But as a positive anecdote, in my life prior to rooting down, as a younger and more adventurous human, I found that maintaining a community and a good group of friends even somewhat far away from the rest of them is easy and most importantly, comes easy. Its natural. I never found community a problem, because I always had a few groups of friends and it was always enough for us to touch ground together only monthly or every other month, so our location wasn’t really a concern. Most of us lived apart anyway. And the actual day-to-day sense of community came from work or uni or that kind of thing. I was never alone, though I lived blissfully far from most everyone.

So the only thing that really makes it difficult is trying to find a way and a good timing for not only one, but three+ people to move at once with all of them being happy with it. That’s a puzzle I’ve found near impossible to crack.

If we had a lot of money saved or good enough jobs to get a nest egg going, the problems likely wouldn’t matter and could very easily be worked around. But alas, we are just lower middle class, and while we are well enough off, moving is a completely life changing and paradigm shifting thing. It’s not something to choose lightly.

Maybe that plays a part within your group of acquaintances too? My work is even WFM and my partner could likely commute easily from most of the options we have within 100km. So technically we have a lot going for it. Should be easier.

But it’s not. Life is complex.

Edit: For context, I’m in Europe too.

Fair enough. I’m not going to, nor do I want to, dissuade you from continuing your search and believing what you believe, just wanted to get a better understanding on how you reason about these things. And initially I had hoped also to spark some questions and maybe second thoughts on your part.

For the record, I’m not entirely following your chain of thought here, and I do not believe as you believe, nor do I really see the the distinction you posed just now, but who knows, maybe I’m wrong and it turns out you’re right.

But you do choose to believe in aliens and ghosts, despite there being a lot more claimed evidence even in today’s world towards god?

Or do you think that aliens and/or ghosts can be confirmed to a greater extent than a god? What is the difference?

Okay, so now that the requirements are even further defined, let us continue applying them.

God must be real.

Do you believe in god?

Okay, well let’s apply that newly specified set of requirements.

Earth must be flat for the same reason. There’s even more evidence for it than for aliens, across history, across continents and cultures, and there’s plenty of content regarding it in the modern world too, independent of any specific locale.

Do you believe the world is flat?

Big +1 here!

Everything being inherently meaningless doesn’t mean we can’t just imagine and make up meanings ourselves! The universe doesn’t care, but you can choose to! 🕺✨

But you can do your darnest. Drown all that existential dread and other stuff in either of these:

• Stuff. Just things to do. Start hobbies and projects and get carried away enough to forget these, at least momentarily
• Drugs! Alcohol included. It’s not healthy but you can choose to. You’ll probably forget a lot about all this, if you indulge enough. Not a recommendation, just noting this is something you can already choose to do, and for most with access to internet and lenny, probably readily available

Have fun!

This is probably just to point out the bias in the original question and our incapability to actually answer it or similar questions, but I actually think this is probably the one thing that separates hell and paradise here on earth.

Well, not the only thing, but once all the basic needs are covered, most of how this feels, probably comes down to what you focus on. Intentionally or not. We’re not very in control of our focus or our minds, after all.

Personally, I think it’s because life is beautiful, the world is beautiful, people are for the most part beautiful. In a hell, I don’t think we should have so much beauty and majority of our time spent in awe of this all, enjoying our time, the nature and each other.

I think this might very well be a hell, though, if one focuses on the bad stuff. Which is way too easy these days with our phones and constant cycle of news and updates and whatnot.

But to be a hell, overall, I would think there wouldn’t be so much niceness, so much endearing stuff, so much love and joy. I know not everyone gets nearly enough of those, but there are people, like me, who are just way too lucky I guess, or maybe it’s a little bit about attitude or perspective gained by having been at the lowest lows, but also able to escape those pits of suicidal despair. And, again, in a hell, I can’t imagine they’d let you escape and lead a joyous, happy life, in a beautiful, breathtaking world

Edit: Also, like one commenter put it so well: What does it matter?

If this is all a hell, then I’m okay with that. It’s nice. It doesn’t matter what this “actually” is. It’s just nice, warts and all.

Fair points. I lacked in perspective but you brought me some, so I thank you 😌

I always wonder about that. It seems like a non-issue to me. You’re just paying it, same as always, and the other can contribute when or if they can, what they can. Running costs that do increase with two people, like electricity or water, should be easy to just split some way, since the other’s no longer paying for their rent and utilities.

But why does it have to be some set sum or percentage or whatever? Why does it have to be static in the first place? Why not just let them contribute what they can, when they can, since the money’s not tight?

But of course the real correct answer will always be different for each relationship. And only revealed by talking and assuming each feel comfortable being honest and vocal about their thoughts and neither gets steamrolled or gets left with reservations or doubts about the outcome.

This is actually one of the most mentally damaging parts of my youth, but before Facebook or 9gag or whatever meme-sharing places were prominent, back way when, there was a portal in similar vein but in our language and as such, not international, so the damage wasn’t as bad as it could’ve been, in a sense, but I doubt it’d have been a meme if the entirety of the world’s memes were fighting for the same spots in the feeds or whatever.

Anyway, took me a long time to identify this as a source of some quirks I had, but I’m fine with it nowadays so here you go:

I went to a music college and was an aspiring musician. Before college, we had a local band that we were able to gig with and it was fun for a time. Then I left for college, which was 600km away, so that couldn’t continue.

In search of a new band, I initially made the mistake of just posting an ad in a big musician forum (back when we had really busy forums as opposed to centralized social medias 🥴) looking for opportunities. I was, and still am, a metal singer, though back then I could only really growl and scream.

Well, as it turns out, I had undiagnosed and thus unmedicated/unmanaged adhd, so I went a bit overboard and probably went too in length with it. Classic oversharing.

I still, to this day, can’t really tell you what was so funny about it, but a screencap of that ad circulated in the meme site we had back then, garnering over 10k reactions (I think they were different kind of emoticons there, and this was before standardized emojis, but anyways, some sort of explicit input), being in the top10 of memes for a week or so I think…

Luckily the image I attached was from stage and I had my long hair cover my face, so I didn’t really see it in my everyday life, but Jesus was that humiliating to the 16 or so year old me. And I was just getting into the college stuff like parties and all that.

Later, years after, my roommate told me they did it, the fucking rat 😂

Anyway, I guess the funny part was the growling teen acting as if they were already a professional in the ad and writing an essay for the ad. I wish I had it saved somewhere, or someone did, but no luck there. Haven’t seen it in over a decade, nearly two, so I bet I’d know what was wrong with it if I had the chance now, but alas, no such luck.

But that did put me off from a few band interviews for lead singer position and postponed my progress in that regard a lot. We did go on to record albums later with several bands, but I always was very inhibited sort of, really scared to get myself out there, so I always pushed back on any ad campaigns or promo pushes or whatever and we never did break big with any of them.

I’m fine now and worked through those problems in therapy as an adult, but, well, that’s my story.

For a second, I was a local meme, luckily not recognizable from it for anyone other than those who knew me.

I’m so glad we didn’t have social media back then, at least not in the same form as today 😬

Just an anecdote, but I don’t think flirting is a specific thing to do per se, so feel it’s more just being honest to yourself and the other and letting it come out, I.e you shouldn’t think specifically about flirting, just say the things out loud you notice in the other or feel inside. Like tell them they look beautiful if they do. You create unneeded pressure when you think it as an explicit thing to do and master, when really, it’s messaging out loud your vulnerable observations and feelings we generally hold inside.

You feel bubbly inside with them? I would just go ahead and say that exactly as-is, without trying to be explicitly flirty or somehow “traditional” or beholden to the norms of what we’ve been taught flirting is.

Bubbly inside is fine if that’s what you feel. Their hair has amazing golden hues in the sun? Just say it if it feels right. You want to spend more time with them? That’s flirting, too, if you just say it out loud.

It’s vulnerable and scary, but it’s not hard or really even a bespoke thing to do. It’s letting yourself be vulnerable and open to hurt by voicing your thoughts, feelings and desires.

It can be fun too, since if the other is also struggling with knowing when it’s fine to voice things like that, you doing it signals it’s fine and you get all the warmth and love and voiced validation for yourself too. You get to hear how they perceive you, what is beautiful or exciting in you, you lower the barrier of just hooking up if it feels right for both, forming thoughts and feelings into words just starts coming more natural and it’s always just fun and exciting and validating, as well as all the other lovely things.

So what I’m trying to say is don’t think about flirting as a thing, just start saying shit out loud when you feel said shit. You like the way they look? Just start voicing it out loud, and it just flows naturally from there if the excitement is mutual.

Much less intimidating if you stop thinking about it and stressing about the concept of flirting as you’ve perceived it from media and such. It’s natural, comes readily for all, when the situation is right. All it takes is daring to take the jump, which is really the only serious blocker, being brave enough to be vulnerable. If you make flirting as a concept a blocker and a source of anxiousness too, you’ll have double the amount of anxiousness and blockers.

Best try and consciously just say things out loud instead. Half the stress and sweat, 100% of the reward ✨

It’s like I don’t give a crap about anything or anyone

Well, there you go. This is most likely the culprit, and it is something one can train. If caring does not come readily, you’ll have to train it, just like reading, writing and other human skills.

Good luck.

Same, but as a fun bonus, it’s also the constant source of my many anxieties

Me neither, just commenting on the general disparity between other western countries and the US in most of issues that concern some sort of a moral choice. I have to assume at some point they were equally leaning towards (at least a decoy of a semblance of) common good, as it (as fragile and grayscale as it is) has generally been in the developed west outside of US. Not saying it’s perfect anywhere, but I think we do have to concede that things are, and have been, way more weird and concerning in the US in the past 30 years. Maybe more, but that’s what I have experience with and insight into.

But I believe people can have empathy outside of own experiences. All it takes is some tendency towards curiosity and enough imagination to actually be able to make sense of something as abstract as assuming someone else’s point of view. And empathy besides, which is a little bit of a harder concept and probably requires some inherent traits acquired at birth(?), compassion certainly should be possible for anyone. You can rationally realize others’ troubles without understanding it completely. That just requires caring past one’s own self.

It would of course benefit them if they had the experience. I’ve often, when speaking of such hard and heavy topics, gone on a similar tangent. Perspective, at the end of the day, is the thing everyone ought to have. Experiencing the things yourself is one way, but I think just reading about others struggles and thoughts is a great way to gain that as well. If someone lacks any and all traits required to care about others, then I suppose the perspective evades them until they experience it themselves (this is so common in right-wing politics (doesn’t even have to be far right, even very liberal right falls for this constantly!) even in extremely progressive countries such as mine), but I have to believe there are other ways.

This often comes up with depression and anxiety and outside of the more serious things, just general bad mindsets. A lot of people are having a hard time adjusting to the world as it is today, and that’s so understandable. But when people wonder why Im seemingly able to find light, joy and happiness, hope even, while being generally aware of all this, I don’t really know what else to say, other than tell them I spent several years on the edge of suicide, fighting against these things that were driving me down the ledge. Without going to the specifics, I just always try to give them the understanding that the perspective gained from that, surviving it, finding the way forward, it just helps navigating the struggles to find a little bit of light in everything. But was I somehow less empathetic to the people going through clinical depression before I did myself? No. I was fully aware how horrifying and desperate it can get, I just didn’t really know how it felt, but I was able to imagine a lot of it. And a lot of people, I’ve found, are the same. Most of them, even, though that’s just anecdotal. Maybe people like that tend to herd towards others like that, dunno.

But as sad as it is, it’s so common to see the less empathetic or compassionate people drive hard for certain policies, until the policy kicks them in their own knees via their family or friends or whatever, and suddenly they drive against it. It didn’t matter that someone was suffering from it. It had to be someone they knew, before that suffering mattered. As with e.g the depression, a public figure can be a strong opponent of mental health and just promoting the most awkward stuff like not being stressed by eating an apple and going for a jog or whatever. While those too have merits in general, thats just not even close to answering a lot of the cases where that simply isn’t enough, or even possible, or even good at all. Calling everyone soft and losers with no spine. Then when their own child gets diagnosed after a long while of publicly calling even them, their own blood, losers in need of strong leaders and happy thoughts, suddenly it’s a real thing and mental health is an actual concept that isn’t just hippies feeling down or whatever.

Anyway, don’t know where I’m going with this. I agree with you, but I guess I had some words wanting to get out of my head along similar lines.

You’d like to think some sort of empathy, compassion and solidarity at the very least.

But I guess those are traits the US has very effectively diminished from generation to generation.

Ah, that old pattern. Damn. I recognize it and see it way too much around. Luckily not much in my inner circles, but spaces I can’t avoid like work for example. It’s starting to eat up on me.

This is one of those weirdly specific pet peeves I have. For the life of me I can not get into the headspace where that is the outcome of the whole chain of logic and intuition that goes into having that stance, and, more importantly, holding to it despite ample chances, throughout tens of years, to change your mind or act differently. At 50, I see you’re still lashing out in this pattern? But why, man, why?

Surely it ought to feel good to see others doing the right thing, so it wouldn’t feel as bad for yourself to do the wrong thing. Assuming you can’t just stop doing it (Many habits are extremely hard to kick, so that’s entirely human and understandable, not faulting anyone for that). But this way, the total amount of good is better when it’s only you doing the wrong thing, so you can just be the margin of error, sort of? Have less of a negative impact overall. Be implicitly slightly better yourself, by this grace of others. Or at least you should end up feeling that way, or something along those lines, right? Or at the very least, feel just nothing, be entirely oblivious to the whole thing. That’d be human and understandable too. It’s a habit. You don’t necessarily think about those. You just do them.

But to lash out for that? Be conscious enough to realize this all, but instead of any other kind of understandable human way, you, of all things, lash out to those doing the different thing. I just can’t figure it out. Why? I suppose it could be a subconscious coping mechanism to shield one’s self from the fact that they are not doing the right thing, but it feels off that it would come out aggressive or you know combative some way. At others, at least. I get that you might feel bad, and “guilty”, sort of, but surely nobody’s mind goes from “I feel guilty” to “it’s your fault I’m feeling guilty”? Ugh.

I find my lack of perspective often very anxiousness-inducing. I can emphatise with such a wide range of lives and beings and situations, but there are so many I simply can’t, often similar to this specific thing. Makes me nervous about me potentially being selfish or stubborn because I can’t see it. This is one of those things. Makes me sweat, almost. Always reminds me of the “are we the baddies?” meme. Am I partially some sort of a sociopath since I just can’t grasp that mindset? What if I don’t even really emphatise with anyone, I just think I do, but what if it feels different for those that really do it? What if I am a psychopath, goddamnit, this really gets me spiraling 🥲

It took me over ten years to realize this too, although I was young and stupid so it kind of follows. I started carrying a bag with a seal with me and if there wasn’t a public ash tray in view, I’d just drop them in there and I was so ashamed when I first started that, since it was so easy and all the things I thought would be problems, like the smell, just… literally never was. And how quickly the bag would fill up, ugh. All that used to go to the ground. Note however that I was conscious of littering and always if I knew there was an ash tray, say, no more than some 100m detour from my current path, I’d just take the extra steps to put it there. But they are surprisingly rare, especially towards the end of my smoking habit, when smoking started to really die out and be a lot less common. A lot of places, like bars for example, didn’t necessarily put ash trays by the door or terrace, which was how it used to be.

I’m lucky I got out of the habit. But I can sort of emphatise those who do it without thinking about it, especially if they are young.

Younger generations are also lucky, at least here, since smoking is so ludicrously expensive nowadays with the taxes and all, and add to that good education, I very rarely see young people smoking anymore. Seems to be mostly people in their 30s or 40s — my age group — and of us, mostly the “hillbilly” types.

I do use nicotine pouches though, to this day. Low nicotine ones, but anyway. Those are very natural for not trashing, like the Nordic snus, since the pucks/containers come with its own small compartment for the used pouches, that’s easy to clean up at home. And those pucks are very recyclable too (granted that the region has the sort of plastic sorting that differentiates washable/directly reusable containers like we do for glass) which at least from what I have seen, gets done properly a lot of the time.

In general, I think the newer generations are much more aware of all this and do a great job of being conscious of the environment, not only at the global scale, but also just the local environment and surroundings too.

Let’s just hope we didn’t fuck up bad enough so that they might have a chance at adulthood and actually transferring all that to more effective and serious politics and activism. We might just get saved ourselves, too, if they just learn to be decisive enough to push us fuckups out of the picture. God I hope enough of them have the dreams, passion and idealism to actually have that drive and fire.

This became a random tangent, sorry if you got this far!

My current and most of my more recent relationships started from tinder, which has been more or less the “default” at least here in my age group (back then, some 20-30). A few were from Jodel or such in between, but I’ve had most luck with the swipey app. Both poly and mono, depending on the phase I was going through at the time.

I think at least most of my friends have met their partners (most being long term by now, with children and such, like mine too currently) that way. But I live in a relatively small country, so maybe that affects the spread in the apps. When you are just a few million people in total speaking the language, there’s not much sense I suppose to spread thin between several apps.