I’ve observed a connection between lovers of computer languages, and lovers of human languages.
If you are interested in coding or linguistics, are you interested in both or just one of of the two? If only one interests you, which one and why? If both interest you, do they seem related to one another?
Both. They’re not particularly related or similar. But through naming, comments, and docs they’re connected for a common means.
I enjoy formulating in a concise, precise way. I like wordplay. I’m interested in different human languages. I’m familiar with several “computer” languages.
Languages encode meaning. Data formats, specifications and descriptions formalize rules. Human languages have rules too, but they are much more dynamic, diffuse and changing.
Beautifully said, especially in that last paragraph!
That’s interesting, they’re two of my biggest interests. I wonder if this is true for a lot of other people.
Yep this is me. I love learning languages and I’m a software dev for my job.
Hmm same here, but im interested in human language etymology and theory. Im really bad at using ‘human’ languages :\
I’m interested in programming language theory but not as much in linguistics. There is some interesting overlap though. I think I like PLT because it is prescriptive, unambiguous and clear; whereas linguistics is an attempt to describe natural language, but has areas that are ambiguous and less clear (invisible green dragons sleep furiously, for one). This impedence mismatch is probably why natural language processing is such a difficult problem in computer science and why we tend to rely on AI for it.
Chomsky’s work in linguistics and grammars was incredibly important for computational parsing, be it source code or anything else. The Chomsky hierarchy (depicted and linked below) is important for developers writing parsers to know, because each category of grammar has different performance characteristics.
Chomsky’s work was seminal both for linguistics (generative models) as well as formal language theory in computer science. I’m a software developer but I’ve a second degree in translation and I studied Chomsky in both cases 🤣🤣🤣
I have interest in both types, but it is not like they are correlated. Computer languages are more logical and human languages are more abstract.
Exactly, is like asking if one should use light years to measure time, they come from time but measure distance.
On parallel note programming languages come from human languages but are meant to express CPU instructions rather than complex ideas and knowledge.
I write code in a bunch of different languages without breaking a sweat, but the human spoken language has always been a mystery to me. I can barely handle one language, I’ve tried learning two others and failed miserably except for a very small handful of words.
I love linguistics and the study of language, but i struggle exactly as you. Programming languages are a lot simpler to learn.
Especially these days when so many of them are all based on C. I started off back in the day with basic because pretty much every computer came with that, but now you have various programming languages, scripting languages, things to write web pages, things to build little tiny computers… it’s crazy.
exactly my case
For me it’s both.
Language interest came from hearing my grandparents speak another language as a child, and coding from exploring early windows/dos and seeing what computers could do. Both are fueled by a curiosity and desire to know more so I’d say they’re only loosely connected in that way.
I’m interested in Linguistics. Not deeply interested on the sets of instructions used by computers, although I know a bit of bash (does it count?).
I think that “programming languages” is at most an overused, overextended metaphor. It’s on the same level as saying that a language is “alive” - sure, you can get a few interesting outcomes from the metaphor, but you need to remember that metaphors become mushy once pulled and pushed hard enough.
Just computer languages for me - I am absolutely horrible with any spoken language besides my native tongue nor do they interest me. Meanwhile picking up new computer languages, libraries, and frameworks is a blast
I wish. I speak spanish natively and english to a level I will codeswitch, very inconvenient among the older generation. I also learnt italian up to a B1 (and pass as italian, if the amount of people asking where from italy I’m from is any indication) and have a passing knowledge of german, enough to grasp the meaning of anything written down, as long as it’s not too complex.
Coding wise? Unless you consider html, css, and rudimentary knowledge of javascript coding, I’m not computer fluent.
For the purpose of the question, i think thoes count as computer languages. :)
Well then, in that case I won’t be as lost when Roko’s basilisk does come!
I have to many computer languages in my head, I’m terrible at even English😄
Seriously though, I think in code. My wife tells me it’s weird. I have a hard time with human languages.
Ditto, even the wife part.
Both are fascinating to me. I have also met a lot of people who are interested in both. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. There’s something really interesting about the way we can use symbols and signifiers to encode and transmit and preserve information. Any kind of information.
Coding requires you to say precisely what you mean. Give clear instructions. Define exactly the pieces you are working with. There is really no room for ambiguity, and there’s something really satisfying to the logical side of my brain about that kind of rigidity.
But that’s exactly why linguistics is interesting to the other side of my brain. Human language is full of fuzzy categories, changing definitions, unwritten rules, unspoken connotations, creative repurposing, borrowing, taboos… You can add dimensions of meaning with text, your voice, your eyes, the movement of your body. You can pack so much nuance into a single word or phrase; a subtle hint can mean so much more than what you are literally saying. You can intentionally encode a message so that it is NOT understood. There is infinite malleability in human language.
This is why it’s so exciting to see such progress in natural language processing. Large language models kind of blur the lines and begin to “understand” and respond to the ambiguities of the way we use language (at least in a kind of probabilistic sense). But they are also learning our programming languages. Right now, we can converse with AI models that can write (basic) code for us and with us, and make changes based on our conversational language. Imagine one day programming in plain language without that intermediary step!
I have an interest in both and i do think those two interests are related for me.
I code in a few languages and I’ve always wanted to know more than one “human” language but efforts in that area have more or less consistently failed (exception being Esperanto because that’s easy, but since hardly anyone speaks it it’s not exactly useful).
Despite my interest in both I doubt there’s much of a correlation when you look at programmers (or polyglots) as a group, though. For all we call all of these things “languages” there’s a pretty big distinction and difference in complexity and approach between the computer and human ones, it’s a whole different hobby.
I’d compare coding more to other hobbies that involve making things. I knit a jumper, I develop a video game…scratches same itch.
Or possibly problem-solving hobbies. I work out how to adjust a sewing pattern to fit, I solve a tricksy sudoku…again same itch.
I’m kinda interested in both, but mostly coding because linguistics often involves humans
Also both for me ! (even subscribed to programmer_humor and also linguistics_humor here on Lemmy)
Story time:
When I was at school, I hated languages (as a native French, English was a PAIN for me), but already was programming for fun outside school. Since I finished school, I grown interest in linguistics as well. I think for me it’s more because manga and animes, and because I am curious, so I wanted to understand all the little parts in texts… So I learned Japanse, then improved my English… then went curious about chinese… Spanish… And at this point, I don’t even learn new languages (too much time), I only searched for differences, construction and all; and that is where I discovered Linguistics basically.Difference between human & computer language:
I heard that part of the brain that process Human language and Computer language is the same, that may be the reason, idkThey seems to be really different though, you don’t “Speak” or write a computer program like you write a text or a poem, it’s a totally different thinking process. The same way, you never read code from top to bottom left to right (reason why unindented code is AWFUL to read), it’s more about looking around what’s going on, to understand what the whole is doing. Sentences are way less dependent on the context (and WAYYYYY less dependent on what follows) to understand them.
But in a way, with time, we lean patterns, and know to recognize them (both in human and computer language), that may be the reason why they are both on the same part of the brain
I think in code, and compose most of my projects in my head before I lay hands on a keyboard. It’s weird to most people when I describe it, but to me it feels like an expression, and it needs to get out, like some might write a poem that comes to them maybe. But don’t expect me to learn a human language, I will struggle.
They seems to be really different though, you don’t “Speak” or write a computer program like you write a text or a poem, it’s a totally different thinking process.
For one, you’re using a complex system of communication, where the meaning of each unit meaning changes, depending on context and the agreement between speaker and hearer. The system is used for phatic, performatic, epistemic, deontic statements, plus more; and it’s usually tied into utterances and discourse in a higher level. And it’s such a mess that would make any spaghetti code look cleaner in comparison.
For the other, you’re delivering a set of instructions. It behaves far more like maths over strictly performative statements than like the above. If you say x = 1, then x is 1. And if you ask if x == 1, you’ll get a true/false output, not any sort of implicature or “it depends on context”.