After the (temporary) defederation announcement of earlier i checked the Lemmy repo to see if there was already a ticket on the federation limiting option like Mastodon’s that people mentioned Lemmy doesn’t yet have. Not only i didn’t find it, i also saw that there’s about 200+ open tickets of variable importance. Also saw that it’s maintained mostly by the two main devs, the difference in commits between them and even the next contributors is vast. This is normal and in other circumstances it’d grow organically, but considering the huge influx of users lately, which will likely take months to slow down, they just don’t have the same time to invest on this, and many things risk being neglected. I’m a sysadmin, haven’t coded anything big in at least a decade and a half beyond small helper scripts in Bash or Python, and haven’t ever touched Rust, so can’t help there, but maybe some of you Rust aficionados can give some time to help essentially all of Lemmy. The same can be said of Kbin of course, although that’s PHP, and there is exacerbated by it being just the single dev.
I’m a professional dev who’s been doing Rust for a few years, and I just looked into their repo for the core project this morning. They’ve tagged some issues as being good for newcomers, which is helpful. I already reviewed someone’s code there to try to help.
I intend to try to pick off some issues. I like to write code, and I’d like to see this project improve.
Maybe this is a good excuse for me to (apologies) shake off the Rust and contribute some. I’ve only contributed once or twice to a FOSS project, though, so I’ll need to read up a little on best practices and etiquette.
Don’t shake it off! They need all the Iron Oxide they can get, from what I’m hearing.
Thank you for this. Finally a good reason to learn more rust 👍
The previous calls for forking were not convincing (political), but this post makes sense to, if the community is unable to contribute because of a lack of attention from external help.
I’m not sure if that’s the case and I’ll have to have a look myself.
I’m happy to contribute, and hopefully the process of new contributors (CONTRIBUTORS.md) is easy and straightforward, and the issues are triaged by someone dedicated, perhaps from the community.
I am a Software Engineer by trade, and I’m right now trying to learn and contribute to their code base but unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to get used to someone else’s code. Hopefully, contributions will pick up once we’ve all had some time to look at it.
Front-end developers
There was a posting I saved about some people saying they were going to code on front-end: https://lemmy.ml/post/1199330
They probably could use more manpower to some extent but we’re all forgetting The Mythical Man-Month; just chucking more bodies at a software project doesn’t necessarily speed it up any more than nine women can have a baby in one month.
That said I’m happy to do the odd bit here and there if there’s any call for it, either for lemmy itself or BeeHaw.
I wish so badly I could code, I spent 8 years trying to understand it and get into the industry, but it never quite clicked in my brain. Soooo I do IT infrastructure. I wish so badly to contribute code
May I ask you more about your experience attempting to learn? I don’t know if it’s because I can program but eight years seems a long time. In return, I’d be happy to offer you a few pieces for advice that could help?
That’s so kind of you!
I started by aiming for front-end web dev. I learned HTML & CSS (I know, we’re not PROGRAMMING yet). At the time, that’s all I was hearing it’d take to get into the role. Then it was “you should probably know some Javascript,” and I wasn’t ready for how big of a jump that was. By the time I started understanding it, it became “learn jQuery,” which I learned and used for a couple of small websites, then came the libraries…
“AngularJS is the future” well now I need to learn Git, compiling, CMD…
ReactJS starts becoming a thing and I say “seriously? I’ve learned enough of these things, quit moving the goalpost, React isn’t going to stick around”
Yeah…it definitely stuck around…but as an Open Source nerd, I got super excited by VueJS and started learning that. No jobs in that apparently, aaaand I no longer want to do web dev, especially since I never reached the point of enjoying coding, it was always a means to an end.
So there were two major issues for me: \- I never focused on one language enough to truly LEARN to code, it was a constant sense of “I’m not keeping up”. I may be able to write the syntax, I might know the basics about functions, vars, and looping, but never really got using it in a super practical sense other than to try a couple of personal challenging projects that my ADHD arse couldn’t ever stick with. \
- Me and coding speak and think very differently. Stick with me here, I know, it’s a language, but the way something should be written and formatted are different from how I think it should be, and this is a very hard one to explain to folks. The best example I can give is that I might say like (and this is a poor example because remember, I don’t code and I’m not doing any active coding projects) \
var person = { userInput } var num; function findNumberOfLetters (person) { num = length(person); } function response(person, num) { findNumberOfLetters(person); console.log("Hello " + person + "! Did you know that your name has " + num + " letters in it? Numbers are rad!"); }
I’m sure I did things wrong, but again, this is just for the sake of example. So, I write something like this thinking that it’s nicely structured and easy to read, and inevitably won’t work. I pass this to a friend, and the answer seems to always be a less structured, more nested code. So for this example, something like \
(function response(userInput) { console.log("Hello " + userInput + "! Did you know that your name has " + length(userInput) + " letters in it? Numbers are rad!"); })
Obviously their answer is shorter and this isn’t exactly a complicated program, but for some reason, making the thing that provides a response to the user to do any of the logic feels wrong and messy to me. It’s a really hard thing to explain, I hope this makes some amount of sense, but I just process things very differently than code does, and it just ends up really incompatible. I’ll beat my head for weeks over-complicating something because I want it to “be clean” only for someone I know to come up with something that actually works within seconds.
This isn’t to compare my skills against them, it’s to say that I’m thinking about it wrong, I’m organizing it wrong.
That said, knowing how code functions has helped me to know enough to be dangerous and apply it in other ways, such as building Azure Logic Apps to manage ticket intake, or building alert monitoring. So it’s come in very handy in its own way, I just don’t have to competency to actually make any contributions to Open Source projects, especially since I don’t write in two of the coolest languages that I wish I could learn: Python and Rust.
No pity party here, I love what I do and I don’t intend to change careers to coding, but I do end up feeling helpless in the face of instances like this where I wish so badly to contribute to a project that I care so strongly about and want to see thrive. I know there’s other ways to contribute, such as providing graphics, UI, documentation, financial, hosting, etc. but coding always seems to be the most in need to keep up with demand, and with more and more projects coming out all the time, the more programmers are in need to see them through.Thank you so much. This is a terrific insight. A little later I’m going to sit down at my PC and type something up I think will help.
I’d ask you as a fellow ADHDer ✊ if I forget to please remind me to write up my response 😂
EDIT: Response now posted here
Likewise, you gave an amazing response and I want to dedicate some time to properly reading and responding to it, so I’ll be responding when I have a good opportunity to commit :) Thank you so much for such a thoughtful and thorough response, I really look forward to going over it
Edit: While I still can’t thank you enough, I’ve finally given a more thorough reply hereI’m a programmer of 25+ years. Everything written above is spot on. I too started with C and I still love that thing like my first born. It is so immensely satisfying writing something in C that a) works b) doesn’t leak memory and c) passes all your unit tests. Nothing else compares.
I too looked at React and hated it with a passion. Then I saw VueJS and kind of liked it. Then I saw Nuxt and now I’ve gone all in on NuxtJS. It is so simple and well-thought out compared to the shambles that is React. It’s very satisfying to use. Rust is next for me.
I’ve learnt well over 10 languages over the years. Some well, some well enough. Learning a language is bit like reading a book. If you’re a third of the way in and it’s doing nothing for you, don’t waste your time. Grab another one off the shelf and try that. Don’t put pressure on yourself - it should be enjoyable, not stressful. Just chip away at it bit by bit and enjoy the little discoveries.
Don’t worry so much about your coding style. From the examples you gave, yours is much easier to follow than the second one. And, you know what? Most ‘senior programmers’ I’ve worked with have been bad coders. The bar is not as high as it may appear.
Sounds like you’re currently a systems guy with a bit of programming skills. That’s an awesome combination to have, and mirrors my own all those years ago. The best bit is your have the freedom to learn programming as a hobby, without the pressure. Enjoy the process. Watch some videos by Sebastian Lague on Youtube, they’re magical.
Best of luck with your programming journey. It is an immensely enjoyable hobby, and ridiculously useful skill to have.
Thank you for taking the time to read my response. I really appreciate having the approval of someone with decades of experience (which, I very much don’t). Out of curiosity, when you started programming would have been the early days of Java, C++ etc. and the start of the ‘OOP revolution’. Can you recall why you started with C, when OOP was very much en vogue?
I started looking into building a theme for Lemmy, but it was quite difficult to get everything to run well locally. When I did a checkout the main branch had an error in the Rust code and the main branch of the ui had an error that prevented the websocket from connecting to the back-en. I did get it to work by fixing the small error in rust and using a branch that fixed the websocket error. But it was hard to get started.
I was wondering if there is a Lemmy development community here on Lemmy. I tried searching for it on Lemmy.ml, but the cummunties about Lemmy and support don’t really look like they are about development.
That’s a good point, there should be a community about developing Lemmy itself on the main Lemmy instance, pinging @dessalines@lemmy.ml and/or @nutomic@nutomic@lemmy.ml, it would be the place to recruit to help, maybe even make posts about specific issues that need attention or something
If you have a matrix account there is a chat for lemmy development: #lemmydev:matrix.org
What is matrix?
It’s a communication protocol with a federated network - see https://matrix.org/
As a dev who never even heard of Rust, it sounds interesting.
Seriously? What language do you use? How much experience do you have?
Them programming in COBOL and never leaving their room for forty years is the only explanation I can think of for not at least hearing of Rust lol
I’m not a dev, but I do have SOME coding experience and have been wanting to help with some open source projects, if nothing else but for the experience. Rust has been on my “to learn” list for like a year now. I def have a lot to learn, but the best way to learn is to get your hands dirty. I’ll take a look at the Github page and see if there’s any low-hanging fruit I can try to tackle lol
EDIT: I’m pretty sure I can help with some of these. My coding skills are out of practice, and idk any Rust yet, but I’m a fast learner. Currently learning how to use git to fork a repo, add code, and create a PR, then I’ll go learn some Rust syntax and get to work! I’m actually really excited! I’ve been wanting to figure out how to contribute to FOSS projects since I started daily driving Arch Linux like a year ago, and this is a great opporunity for me to learn!
If anyone has any development tips for a noob like me, let me know! I’m going in pretty blind here, so any advice is appreciated!
Just a general tip: don’t use your distro version of rust (Lemmy) and nodejs (lemmy-UI). Instead, install them using a version manager, which allows you to switch to different versions of rust or nodejs without being tied to whatever version your distro have in their repository. This is very useful during development when you often need to try different versions to debug an issue (e.g. is this bug only happen on certain compiler version?), testing an upcoming beta features, etc. This apply to most programming languages as well, such as Python, PHP, Go, etc.
For rust,
rustup
seems to be a popular choice. For nodejs,nvm
andasdf
is quite popular.asdf
even support both rust and nodejs.rustup
seems to be a popular choiceNot just that, it’s the official way of installing and updating your Rust toolchain, maintained by the Rust project themselves.
Thank you! Ill keep that in mind!
How is PHP doing these days? It used to be hugely popular, but seems to have fallen into disregard in a lot of circles. I wonder if PHP being seen as a “easier” language than rust will attract more kbin developers?
Almost everything is easier than rust, except stuff like Elixir or Assembly and stuff…
But rust is just better than the others. Golang is also decent, it’s fast (half the speed of rust is still very fast) and much easier to learn.
I wouldn’t say rust is harder, just different. There aren’t really many languages that are safe in the way rust is safe… Ive done a bunch of intermediate rust tutorials and i actually got the hang of it pretty quickly
But on the other hand, Rust is a highly desirably language whereas PHP has a historically bad rap. I don’t think devs necessarily want easiest. They want whatever is most enjoyable to use. Tooling support also matters. Stuff like static typing, for example, makes unfamiliar code way easier to understand. I’ve contributed to a lot of unfamiliar servers and I’ve noticed that ones in languages like Go are a lot easier because the static typing means it’s easier to read the code. In particular, I found servers written in Python hard to work with, and it’s not for lack of experience with the language (I’ve been using Python for longer than Go).
How easy it is to run the code also matters. Has anyone tried that with Lemmy? I was gonna run a dev kbin instance to try and make some changes, but the amount of work it seemed to require just to run the server was more than I wanted to do at the time (I really just want as close as possible to a single command way to run the server locally to test my changes so I can verify they work). Ease of contributing is very important for me to actually bother to contribute.
PHP is hugely popular. People just don’t talk about it because the developers that use it mostly keep quiet and do their work :)