One of the things I have about electric scooters are countries that pass legislation to prevent having seats on them. That is seriously more dangerous than standing up on a scooter, they should just stick to throttling the top speed. Another similar thing that I hate are countries that require bicycles to have pedals and be power-assist only. Completely arbitrary laws that seem more invested in assuring major sellers are able to sell their stock instead of get outdone by innovation.
Another similar thing that I hate are countries that require bicycles to have pedals and be power-assist only.
This is fair I think. In Europe, to be classified as a bicycle, you have power/speed limits and assist requirement. However you get to ride on paths that are designed for bicycle speeds (often adjacent or mixed with pedestrians), don’t require any license or training, can go against traffic in many one way streets etc. It makes sense to limit the use of all that stuff to bicycle like vehicles.
However you can have other types of electric bikes, they just aren’t bicycles by law any more, which makes sense in my opinion. Want to go scooter/motorcycle speeds and twist throttle and all that stuff, you also need the correct license, insurance and have to drive on the road that is designed for higher speeds.
Granted, one could argue about the specifics of the distinction, but in my opinion there definitely needs to be a distinction in the law and you have to draw the line somewhere.
If it’s about limiting it to bicycle type speeds, that could be done separately. Electric bikes are already limited in the speed assist to 25 km/h usually, but there’s no reason to have them require pedals or power assist. I get your concerns, but those can be pretty much be handled by capping out speed even lower in certain paths, like 15 km/h on bicycle paths.
The reason being forced to have pedals is a problem is with extremely extra slim bicycles that should for all intents and purposes be considered scooters and are much less a collision threat than traditional bicycles. There’s also no need to cap out the power the motors can exert, which just remove control from the vehicle on steep inclines and just make weighty people on bikes more dangerous on the road by being more likely to swerve. What there should be a cap on is speed and mass, since those are the principle factors during a collision. Not requiring pedaling also make riding a bicycle much safer, there are a lot of people who get tired out and become a lot less aware of the road from pedaling.
As an aside, IMO riding a bicycle or any vehicle on roads as opposed to a vehicle specific path for any considerable length of time should require having to get a permit and maybe even a license and insurance, because participating in it is much more about the flow of traffic than the characteristics of a particular vehicle.
If it’s about limiting it to bicycle type speeds, that could be done separately.
Yeah, but at least in some legislations, there already is a class of vehicles that is limited to those speeds but isn’t classified as a bicycle. In Germany, a Mofa is a motorized bicycle but requires a helmet and a simple license and insurance.
I guess the idea was to include electric bicycles into the bicycle category only with some strict distinctions to avoid blurring the line to already existing motorized two wheelers. And I do like that I can ride my electric bike everywhere I can ride a non assisted bicycle and without any stricter rules for equipment etc.
As an aside, IMO riding a bicycle or any vehicle on roads as opposed to a vehicle specific path for any considerable length of time should require having to get a permit and maybe even a license and insurance, because participating in it is much more about the flow of traffic than the characteristics of a particular vehicle.
That would be a huge loss of freedom though, insurance and thus license requirements would raise the barrier to entry massively which is exactly the opposite of what you want. Same with requirements for helmet or permit and it would seriously limit the independence of teenagers. There just isn’t a separate path away from car traffic everywhere.
It makes sense to have requirements on maximum size, weight and speed to go in the bike lane. But having rules about the design or operation of the vehicle is just unnecessary bureaucracy. In the Netherlands you can’t even ride an electric skateboard.
But having rules about the design or operation of the vehicle is just unnecessary bureaucracy.
Actually, it is probably just to fit in with existing legislation. A motorized vehicle with a top speed of 25 km/h in Germany already exists (Mofa), you need a simple license and wear a helmet. And you can’t use cycle lanes etc. So to make electric bicycles distinct from that category, they needed to add some differences.
![[meme] Why do people only seem to mean cars when they talk about electric and/or autonomous vehicles?](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8b4f07d2-ffe9-468c-a7da-0e970998b67f.png){kind=link}
One of the things I have about electric scooters are countries that pass legislation to prevent having seats on them. That is seriously more dangerous than standing up on a scooter, they should just stick to throttling the top speed. Another similar thing that I hate are countries that require bicycles to have pedals and be power-assist only. Completely arbitrary laws that seem more invested in assuring major sellers are able to sell their stock instead of get outdone by innovation.
This is fair I think. In Europe, to be classified as a bicycle, you have power/speed limits and assist requirement. However you get to ride on paths that are designed for bicycle speeds (often adjacent or mixed with pedestrians), don’t require any license or training, can go against traffic in many one way streets etc. It makes sense to limit the use of all that stuff to bicycle like vehicles.
However you can have other types of electric bikes, they just aren’t bicycles by law any more, which makes sense in my opinion. Want to go scooter/motorcycle speeds and twist throttle and all that stuff, you also need the correct license, insurance and have to drive on the road that is designed for higher speeds.
Granted, one could argue about the specifics of the distinction, but in my opinion there definitely needs to be a distinction in the law and you have to draw the line somewhere.
If it’s about limiting it to bicycle type speeds, that could be done separately. Electric bikes are already limited in the speed assist to 25 km/h usually, but there’s no reason to have them require pedals or power assist. I get your concerns, but those can be pretty much be handled by capping out speed even lower in certain paths, like 15 km/h on bicycle paths.
The reason being forced to have pedals is a problem is with extremely extra slim bicycles that should for all intents and purposes be considered scooters and are much less a collision threat than traditional bicycles. There’s also no need to cap out the power the motors can exert, which just remove control from the vehicle on steep inclines and just make weighty people on bikes more dangerous on the road by being more likely to swerve. What there should be a cap on is speed and mass, since those are the principle factors during a collision. Not requiring pedaling also make riding a bicycle much safer, there are a lot of people who get tired out and become a lot less aware of the road from pedaling.
As an aside, IMO riding a bicycle or any vehicle on roads as opposed to a vehicle specific path for any considerable length of time should require having to get a permit and maybe even a license and insurance, because participating in it is much more about the flow of traffic than the characteristics of a particular vehicle.
Yeah, but at least in some legislations, there already is a class of vehicles that is limited to those speeds but isn’t classified as a bicycle. In Germany, a Mofa is a motorized bicycle but requires a helmet and a simple license and insurance.
I guess the idea was to include electric bicycles into the bicycle category only with some strict distinctions to avoid blurring the line to already existing motorized two wheelers. And I do like that I can ride my electric bike everywhere I can ride a non assisted bicycle and without any stricter rules for equipment etc.
That would be a huge loss of freedom though, insurance and thus license requirements would raise the barrier to entry massively which is exactly the opposite of what you want. Same with requirements for helmet or permit and it would seriously limit the independence of teenagers. There just isn’t a separate path away from car traffic everywhere.
It makes sense to have requirements on maximum size, weight and speed to go in the bike lane. But having rules about the design or operation of the vehicle is just unnecessary bureaucracy. In the Netherlands you can’t even ride an electric skateboard.
Actually, it is probably just to fit in with existing legislation. A motorized vehicle with a top speed of 25 km/h in Germany already exists (Mofa), you need a simple license and wear a helmet. And you can’t use cycle lanes etc. So to make electric bicycles distinct from that category, they needed to add some differences.