- cross-posted to:
- gaming@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- gaming@beehaw.org
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This whole article sounds prudish. There’s nothing particularly wrong with there being nc-17 or M rated voice acted scenes in appropriately rated games. If you don’t want to act them out, then simply don’t. You have a union to back you up. That being said, these sort of scenes definitely need to be negotiated and talked about long before minutes before acting it out. I fully agree with such a sentiment.
You should read the article. It’s not just voice actors. Mocap performers, wearing fitted Lycra suits, have to act out graphic scenes without prior notice so the scripts can remain confidential until the day of the shoot.
Ms Jefferies told the BBC she was once asked to act out a scene with a male performer involving a sexual assault with no prior warning.
“I turned up and was told what I would be filming would be a graphic rape scene,” she said.
Ah. Yeah. That’s a problem. If I went into work one day and my client said “now, pretend to rape and hurt this woman” I think I’d be uncomfortable too. I wonder if they even know the subject matter going in, even if the scripts are confidential. At the very least, a trigger warning.
Ad hoc rate just quadrupled
As long as studios are upfront about what to expect and it all gets negotiated it should be fine.
If sudden rape scenes appear that can cost you your job, income, and career if you sont do it, then well, how far away is that from actual rape?
Good on you for understanding the psychological impact of such a proposition, but being physically penetrated is definitly another level.
Well, there is an entire -rather famous- market section in the entertainment industry where being physically penetrated is part of the job description. Ya know, porn?
Well these motion capture artists did not sign up to do porn.
Nor does porn do rape scenes without prior warning.
Rape is a serious issue that is trivialized by popular culture.
I agree with your second phrase, I absolutely disagree with your last one, though. Nobody trivializes rape, and popular culture doesn’t trivialize rape either
Losing a job is not the same as being raped.
A lost carreer may share elements, but does not equate.
There’s nothing particularly wrong with there being nc-17 or M rated voice acted scenes in appropriately rated games
Nobody’s arguing that. This is about the right to informed consent, not censorship.
If you don’t want to act them out, then simply don’t. You have a union to back you up
That’s not always the case in the moment.
That being said, these sort of scenes definitely need to be negotiated and talked about long before minutes before acting it out. I fully agree with such a sentiment
…so you actually agree with what they’re trying to do but still felt like misrepresenting it for a few sentences before saying so?
Weird choice, but at least you reached the right conclusion at the end 🤷
Misrepresenting? Please elaborate how I’m doing such a thing, there are two issues here: the subject of the scenes, and the not being told about the subject.
I have my two cents on each subject, you can agree or disagree with what I say, but saying I was Misrepresenting anything is flat out lying about my comment.
Misrepresenting? Please elaborate how I’m doing such a thing
there are two issues here: the subject of the scenes, and the not being told about the subject.
That’s how. By inventing the first issue. Nobody’s arguing for censorship. It’s only about the right to informed consent.
saying I was Misrepresenting anything is flat out lying about my comment.
Nope. You were inserting a strawman argument about censorship. That’s by definition misrepresenting.
I feel like sometimes people comment, then read the article, and then try to backpedal when you point out that they missed the point of the article. Thanks for calling it out though
What an empty comment, smuglord.
Just pointing out the logical inconsistency of going off on an irrelevant tangent about prudishness and then in the same comment support what it’s ACTUALLY about.
That’s not empty. Unlike your comment, hypocrite.
My comment was concise, clear, and accurate, and I stand by it.
I also don’t agree with the OP you responded to, but they at least had thoughts - and, more to the point, weren’t a total smuglord.
My comment was concise, clear, and accurate
Well, you’re right that it was concise, at least…
they at least had thoughts
As did I. Using strawmen like injecting an irrelevant argument about censorship matters. It’s dishonest and misleading and that’s what I was commenting on.
and, more to the point, weren’t a total smuglord.
That’s just your hypocritical opinion 🤷
Not really expecting you to see it, anyways.
I’ll continue to love love, hate hate, and outsmug the smuglords. I don’t mind the apparent hypocrisy of using my enemy’s tools on them, when I find it applicable.
try not to cut yourself on all that edge.
I agree, 100% there is nothing wrong with mature content in games as long as there is consent by all parties involved.
The article is not about mature content in games. It’s about people in mocap suits being told to act out graphic scenes without prior notice, because the scripts are kept confidential until the day of shooting.
This whole article sounds prudish
Do you mean the title? You didn’t read the article. They just want to make sure the process is right and that the actors know that they are going to act in sexual scenes in advance.
Obviously you either didn’t read the article or don’t care about actors being forced to enact sexual assault scenes. I’d rather think it’s the first, because from your response I’d assume that you simply don’t care about the actors’ well-being and just want your fap material.
Please pay more attention the next time, and at least pretend that you care. This is about informing the actors and getting their consent.
And don’t come with that crap about unions; in the game industry unions are practically non existent.
So read the article, twice if necessary; you might learn a thing or two.
I don’t understand the logic. Why would you choose this path? Disclosing the nature of the scenes during hiring would only attract exactly the people who are already comfortable with performing the content.
The only reason to hide it would be to attach more popular names to your title, but think that through. So you’ve trapped your talent, and sprung a spicy scene on them last minute, now what?
They’ll:
a) flat out refuse
b) maybe sue you
c) give an uncomfortable, lackluster performance
d) happen to be cool with it and also give a good performance
D is both the only really good outcome, and by far the least probable, 10% chance tops.
C isn’t great, but at least their name is on the box, and they do the other parts well. I’d say about 40% probability.
A means more complications any way you slice it, either editing scenes or hiring additional talent, probably about 30%, .
B is about 15%, leaving 5% for the lizardmen.
If the content is that crucial to the product, find a performer who is willing and able to do it well.
Edit: To clarify, not only is throwing adult scenes at performers last minute unethical, it’s also stupid.
So your fine with traumatizing individuals who arent ready for such work???
No, that’s uncomfortably stupid. They can be told a generic summary of what they will be doing. "There will be a scene involving SA, in the script. You will have to be okay with this in order to voice on this project. "
Also, please God, what the hell is that formatting. You list a, b, c, d then go on to expand D, C, A, B. My formatting sucks but yours almost sent me in a dyslexic rage.
Worst of all I don’t even know if your for this or against it. I may be stupid but it feel like you said both, the first paragraph and last paragraph seem to contradict each other.
So your fine with traumatizing individuals who arent ready for such work???
What are you talking about? That’s the exact opposite of what I said.
I’m saying that, even if you ignore the ethical issues, it’s still stupid to do this.
Ugh
Yeah not giving notice is very shitty of the studios. If they can tell PEGI/ESRB that games will have “Sexual Themes” and publishers at pitch stage for what rating they’re aiming for, then I don’t know why they can’t tell the performers.
Not a great headline, as it makes it sound like the “action” being called for might be prohibiting such scenes, when it is actually just a reasonable desire to be informed in advance of whether a scene will involve things like simulated sexual violence, etc.
I do agree that motion capture and voice actors should be given a heads-up about the scene they are about to shoot. Nobody should be asked on the spot to ‘perform’ a disturbing or explicit scene without first at least being able to make mental preparations! It would certainly help to have some more ladies assisting in the capture to make it less awkward for a woman acting/voicing such a scene.
This reminds me of the torture scene in GTAV. Extremely graphic and intense and left an impression on me (especially at it regards government torture if ‘terrorests’, but don’t let me spoil it, it’s so deeply unsettling even for GTA).
In that case I’d presume the actors knew who they were portraying at least (psychopath Trevor) but I’m curious what even that was like. It’s well acted out, after all, and those actors deserve as much respect as anyone else in the industry.
Post-Weinstein movie studios are more conscientious and are looking to have an intimacy coordinator on set. It would make sense that this kind of cautiob should extend to the game industry, incuding porn video production and adult game production.
As per all other labor disputes, every labor victory has to be won in each separate industry since workers are not actually reapected in any of them.
I think this is one of those things that’s more fun to comment on when you don’t really know what you’re talking about. We should have separate threads for people who actually read the article.
Yes, but it takes two to hold a conversation.
Honestly, some of the gaming community these days Is filled with the most revolting, incel cesspool I’ve ever seen. Look at zenless Zone Zero created by Hoyo, who also created Genshin impact. It’s filled with characters that look like they are 12 years old, highly sexualized and half naked, with jiggly boob and butt physics, feet pictures, the official community on Reddit that is run by Hoyo itself is bombarded with half naked pictures of these young girls. It’s truly disturbing. The way these gamers defend it is even more disturbing. They say things like “It’s fictional so it doesn’t matter if she looks like a child.” like what??? Bro
Wtf is this logic? “Some pervy games exist, therefore the gaming community these days is the most revolting, incel cesspool I’ve ever seen”. You know, lots of gamers also don’t play Genshin Impact because it looks gross and dumb (myself among them)
You might as well say “CSAM exists, therefore everyone in the world is a filthy degenerate pedo incel”
Point was, gaming community has never historically been filled with so many pervy people coming out of the woodwork saying grotesque things about characters that look like they are 12 years old like they are now. That stuff usually stayed on 4chan and other niches. Now, you have AAA studios developing games with so many thirst trap elements in them that it’s honestly disturbing. Activision Blizzard had to completely remove paintings and pictures of women from the game as a response to sexual abuse allegations within their own company. That’s a billion dollar company owned by Microsoft. More people aren’t taking a stand on this because they’re clearly enjoying the oversaturation of heavily sexualized video games nowadays. That’s pretty disturbing and that kind of stuff should never be mainstream because mainstream games are supposed to appeal to an audience of all ages, and makes it easier to get access to that kind of stuff for everyone which creates its own problems
gaming community has never historically been filled with so many pervy people
Lmao. You clearly don’t remember ye olde days when gaming companies would just openly advertise using misogyny because they believed it would appeal to their target demographic. There was a time when a game having a woman protagonist would be considered shocking, and all women characters in games wore bikinis.
The games industry hasn’t gotten more gross and pervy. It’s gotten significantly less so. It’s just that the industry as a whole has also grown massively. So what used to be like 40% of the population of gamers a few decades ago is now only like 5%, but the actual quantity of people is bigger. Again, you’re condemning an entire medium for the behaviour of a relatively small number of creators and consumers. I’ve personally never in my life met someone who actually plays those awful anime gatcha games like Genshin Impact, and yet virtually everyone I know plays video games to some extent.
that kind of stuff should never be mainstream because mainstream games are supposed to appeal to an audience of all ages
Spare me the puritanical bullshit. The notion that every game should appeal to all ages is monumentally stupid. Go back to the dark ages when people complained about violence in games causing school shootings.
You clearly don’t remember ye olde days when gaming companies would just openly advertise using misogyny because they believed it would appeal to their target demographic. There was a time when a game having a woman protagonist would be considered shocking, and all women characters in games wore bikinis.
I remember quite clearly actually, and as a kid, it was boring and kinda gross to me. Instant dislike and lost my desire to play any game like that
Spare me the puritanical bullshit. The notion that every game should appeal to all ages is monumentally stupid. Go back to the dark ages when people complained about violence in games causing school shootings.
What does this have to do with puritanical ideology, exactly? Games like Doom were terrific, I played them when I was 10. No misogyny, no sexualization at all. Duke Nukem on the other hand, instant pass. Felt like a slumlord game and way too gross. The amount of glorification of sexually explicit stuff was really strange to me. Like it’s ok if you want to call a game an eroge/erotica game sure there’s a whole target market for that. But when you have a company like Hoyo that makes Gacha RPGs and then lie blatantly about it being a regular action RPG and it’s a highly sexualized erotica game with jiggle physics thrown into your face every 5 mins, big nope from me, we don’t need that bullshit. Their false advertising and sexual explicit sub themes have driven a lot of people away from the game.
It’s the same as the movie business, pay attention to the sort of entertainment your employer makes. If you get a script for, “The Human Centipede” then READ IT, imagine how your scenes are going to play out, and decide if your dignity and self-respect are worth it.
The article says they don’t get the info in advance. Disclosure: My quote is not related to this argument.
“I turned up and was told what I would be filming would be a graphic rape scene,” she said.
"This act could be watched for as long or as little time as the player wanted through a window, and then a player would be able to shoot this character in the head.
Sounds terrible.
If you get a script
Did you read the article though?
That all seems very reasonable to request.
That shit just doesn’t belong in video games- period. There’s no good purpose to it. It never adds to the game at all… it’s fucking pointless.
In your opinion, do not speak for everyone else, plenty do enjoy a good sex scene. I bet you don’t say shit about the violence, blood and gore in video games.
The only disgusting part here is the lack of consent and communication to the performers as per the article.
Go clutch your pearls elsewhere
There’s no purpose to it at all. Fucking a pixelated character in a video game ads nothing to the story. And since you’re here to cast aspersions-
You can go simp elsewhere.
I didn’t attack anyone. I simply stated my opinion. Grow up.
There’s no purpose to it at all. Fucking a pixelated character in a video game ads nothing to the story. And since you’re here to cast aspersions-
You can go simp elsewhere.
I didn’t attack anyone. I simply stated my opinion. Grow up.
Your opinion of “This offends me, therefore noone should be able to enjoy it” has been noted and disregarded, Karen.
I never said it offends me, did I? I just said it’s fucking stupid and adds nothing to the games.
Maybe stop reading what you want things to say so you can be the hero and maybe pay attention?
I simply stated an opinion. You got butthurt and wept all over the discussion. Your problem. Not mine.
Cope.
You definitely sound more butthurt than he does. Anyways, have a good day!
You too!
Why do t you get out of our business. If I wanna fuck a pixel that’s my damn business.
k
Weirdo snowflake rofl
Grow up.
Hard disagree. But that’s okay, we’re allowed to like different kinds of games. Yours isn’t any more objective than mine though. If you don’t like that kind of thing, just don’t play those kinds of games. It’s not a threat to you if others enjoy them.
Insane take. Are stories not allowed to explore SA now? That’s silencing of women’s (and many men’s) experience in a way that it could actually be heard and understood.
Dumb take border lining on censorship
- borderlining
I don’t think you understand that it’s not for porn sake, these aren’t all hot coffee scenes and such. It sounds like actors had to rape and harm people for dramatic effect, like you’d see on TV (e.g. Game of Thrones comes to mind). While it’s not really my cup of tea either, I think it can certainly amp up the tension and suspense. Far from pointless.
The problem in this case is a matter of disclosure; Video Game companies are not used to walking the same thin line with actors as TV and Movie producers (who still haven’t fully grasped it either but have gotten better, e.g. having consent coaches on staff and such).
“Art should not represent themes of sexual assault” Wtf are you on
Show me where I said that? I specifically meant sex in general. They’re games. Not simp simulators. But even if I had- if you need sexual assault to be in video games…… VIDEO GAMES-
“I want to see sexual assault and rape!” wtf are YOU on.
How do you like being misquoted?
I mean, you could just not play the games that feature it instead of implying that it shouldn’t ever be in any game ever.
