Consider this question: how is it that anyone under the age of 40 today has ever smoked?
By the time they were born, the bad effects of smoking were well understood. By the time they were teenagers, not smoking should have been as obvious as not jumping in front of a train. People already addicted find it difficult to quit, but it in no way explains anyone starting.
The question is different and yet very similar, because the things you mention wind up in a similar way. Somehow people start in that route even though it should be obvious not to. And these things you mention are much easier to fall into than smoking because parents, family, etc are all pushing it on people. Smokers generally aren’t pushing their kids, nieces and nephews, grandchildren, etc to smoke, and somehow smoking still proliferates to some degree, just consider how much more difficult to avoid it is for those whose families are actively encouraging them to fall into these methods of belief and hate.
Somehow people start in that route even though it should be obvious not to.
Nicotine provides a short term mental stimulus that’s great for people who feel exhausted or have trouble staying focused.
That’s why lots of people start smoking in school and lots of professionals continue smoking well past the point at which the health effects are obvious.
I know a pulmonologist who smoked until he was in his thirties. Literally “how do you expect me to do my job without this?” was his response when I pressed him on it. Lawyers still smoke like chimneys and for the same reasons
For me as a non-smoker, but vaper, it’s not as if I “fell” into anything. I actively choose to vape and like it. I quit before and did not like it. I get way more benefits from nicotine than downsides. These are factual benefits.
It’s a poor analogy for right-wing political beliefs which don’t really work. They do not really lead to the goals they claim.
Would i wrong to venture the guess that you didnt like quitting vaping because you were suffering from nicotine withdrawal? I swapped to vaping after years of smoking and eventually quit vaping. It was not enjoyable to quit but i feel a million times better not being beholden to the habit. My lungs feel better, my brain feels better, my stress levels are lower.
What benefits does nicotine bring other than satifyi g your craving for nicotine.
Nah. I quit for quite a few months and my withdrawals largely passed, I no longer had any nicotine cravings by that point.
Then I started having serious problems with academic performance, insane mood swings, etc.
My stress levels were much higher, I had brain fog constantly and was either restless or super low energy.
I experienced zero benefits to quitting vaping in terms of physical wellbeing also, my lungs felt no different before or after, but I never smoked, but I did almost become obese after quitting due to the lack of hunger suppression.
I didn’t connect it to quitting nicotine at first and searched for psychological explanations, but I had no actual reasons to be struggling at the time, eventually I realized it started a few months after I’d quit vaping. When I started using nicotine again via patches, after some time I started feeling like myself again.
Turns out I had undiagnosed ADHD - now professionally diagnosed so I actually was genuinely way better off on nicotine than off of it, it does the same thing as Adderall (Amphetamine) does as well, but more subtle and in a slightly different way, a combination of both has really made me a much better person, far more rational and just generally way calmer, but also way more productive. I now have an MSc and a decently paying IT career, a stable and healthy relationship, healthy weight and I’m always working on self-improving through exercise, learning or minimizing other vices like cutting out all sugary foods, no more snacks, more veg, less alcohol etc etc. I wouldn’t have had any of this without good ol’ nicotine.
From my discussions with the diagnosing psychiatrist, this is a relatively common thing amongst folks with ADHD.
There are a number of studies that suggest Nicotine’s potential usefulness in “neurospicy” people:
One study suggested that poor cognitive performance overall being a good predictor for relapse among smokers could actually be explained by rhe fact that nicotine being a stimulant has wide ranging helpful effects for cognitive function:
Drugs are drugs. YMMV. Assuming that chemical X is always bad when this isn’t the case isn’t useful to a productive discussion. Even if you want to dissuade people from nicotine absolutely - an approach that works far better to actually getting people on board is being honest.
On Reddit, subs like quitvaping and the caffeine quitting one are full of misinformation that is transparently a bunch of people RPing the war on drugs infomercials of the late 80s, not much different from the semen retention pseudoscience folks.
But also don’t smoke. Obligatory disclaimer but Inhaling combustion smoke just isn’t worth any benefit of anything, not nicotine, not devil’s lettuce.
Vaping is far far safer and so far is not known to cause any issues, (unless of course you count the tainted dark market unregulated american weed vapes which will give you popcorn lung), though as always, we can’t be sure, so best use something like patches.
You mentioned it turns out you have ADHD (turns out so do i) and that you began medication for that and it reads that this medication began at around the same time as you started on nicotine again.
I am inclined to ask the question. Do you think perhaps you are associating the effects of the ADHD treatment to nicotine use?
There certainly are some documented benefits to nicotine use. And much of what you say is verifiable. However, many of the benefits you describe can be associated with the treatment of ADHD aswell.
I accept i dont know your personal situation. I only read your comment and noticed the timing seemed to be a bit close.
On the subject of vaping, i personally experienced some sticky phlegm and trouble coughing this up as well as issues with lung capacity and the dependance on the nicotine made me extremely irritable and unable to concentrate until i vaped.
Also it takes longer than a few months to break a nicotine addiction. I still uphold the idea that there may have been some withdrawal going on there.
However i am happy to conceed the point if you genuinely disagree. As i said i have no idea about your personal situation.
and it reads that this medication began at around the same time as you started on nicotine again.
No, there was at least a few months between these two events. I should’ve phrased it better.
Do you think perhaps you are associating the effects of the ADHD treatment to nicotine use?
No. They’re wildly different in feel. I can tell when my meds wear off and when they kick in most days. That’s why I like having both.
i personally experienced some sticky phlegm and trouble coughing this up
This is far more likely due to the fact you used to smoke. I have anecdotally heard of some people who have issues with feeling like their throat is irritated, but they usually have crazy setups, like 300w 4-coil 0.24ohm temple RDAs with 1.5mg nic on a noisy cricket II in series or w/e. I have a hunch that the reason for it. Those were fun AF but I wouldn’t use it long term, it’s the equivalent of thinking that because a bar of chocolate doesn’t hurt you, then neither can a giant dump truck.
I’ve long switched to the rechargable elfbars with high strength (relatively) nic salts and low vapour volume which I’ve had no issues with.
and the dependance on the nicotine made me extremely irritable and unable to concentrate until i vaped
That’s true for sure. If I know I’m not gonna be able to vape I just use nicotine patches, I have no psychological addiction to vaping itself, only a physiological dependency on nicotine, if the patches match my nicotine intake levels, then I tend to forget vaping is even a thing at all haha.
Also it takes longer than a few months to break a nicotine addiction.
Yes, in terms of cravings, and those did pass actually, but in terms of such acute withdrawal effects? Nah - something is definitely going on there that wasn’t just pure withdrawals.
As i said i have no idea about your personal situation.
The guy wasn’t talking about vaping though, but smoking. The one we know for sure gives you a ton of issues and health problems.
Whilst I agree it’s not a great analogy for right wing beliefs, I’d say it works as a good analogy for incel behaviour. I knew a guy who had fallen into that trap but managed to find his way out. When I asked him about it, he said it helped him cope, that it was easier to believe that it wasn’t his fault things were so shitty.
I really respect how he was able to realise that the things he and the people around him were saying was bullshit, and it made me realise that a lot of these people are being taken advantage of by “influencers” spewing this harmful rhetoric.
Consider this question: how is it that anyone under the age of 40 today has ever smoked?
By the time they were born, the bad effects of smoking were well understood. By the time they were teenagers, not smoking should have been as obvious as not jumping in front of a train. People already addicted find it difficult to quit, but it in no way explains anyone starting.
The question is different and yet very similar, because the things you mention wind up in a similar way. Somehow people start in that route even though it should be obvious not to. And these things you mention are much easier to fall into than smoking because parents, family, etc are all pushing it on people. Smokers generally aren’t pushing their kids, nieces and nephews, grandchildren, etc to smoke, and somehow smoking still proliferates to some degree, just consider how much more difficult to avoid it is for those whose families are actively encouraging them to fall into these methods of belief and hate.
Nicotine provides a short term mental stimulus that’s great for people who feel exhausted or have trouble staying focused.
That’s why lots of people start smoking in school and lots of professionals continue smoking well past the point at which the health effects are obvious.
I know a pulmonologist who smoked until he was in his thirties. Literally “how do you expect me to do my job without this?” was his response when I pressed him on it. Lawyers still smoke like chimneys and for the same reasons
For me as a non-smoker, but vaper, it’s not as if I “fell” into anything. I actively choose to vape and like it. I quit before and did not like it. I get way more benefits from nicotine than downsides. These are factual benefits.
It’s a poor analogy for right-wing political beliefs which don’t really work. They do not really lead to the goals they claim.
Would i wrong to venture the guess that you didnt like quitting vaping because you were suffering from nicotine withdrawal? I swapped to vaping after years of smoking and eventually quit vaping. It was not enjoyable to quit but i feel a million times better not being beholden to the habit. My lungs feel better, my brain feels better, my stress levels are lower.
What benefits does nicotine bring other than satifyi g your craving for nicotine.
Nah. I quit for quite a few months and my withdrawals largely passed, I no longer had any nicotine cravings by that point.
Then I started having serious problems with academic performance, insane mood swings, etc.
My stress levels were much higher, I had brain fog constantly and was either restless or super low energy.
I experienced zero benefits to quitting vaping in terms of physical wellbeing also, my lungs felt no different before or after, but I never smoked, but I did almost become obese after quitting due to the lack of hunger suppression.
I didn’t connect it to quitting nicotine at first and searched for psychological explanations, but I had no actual reasons to be struggling at the time, eventually I realized it started a few months after I’d quit vaping. When I started using nicotine again via patches, after some time I started feeling like myself again.
Turns out I had undiagnosed ADHD - now professionally diagnosed so I actually was genuinely way better off on nicotine than off of it, it does the same thing as Adderall (Amphetamine) does as well, but more subtle and in a slightly different way, a combination of both has really made me a much better person, far more rational and just generally way calmer, but also way more productive. I now have an MSc and a decently paying IT career, a stable and healthy relationship, healthy weight and I’m always working on self-improving through exercise, learning or minimizing other vices like cutting out all sugary foods, no more snacks, more veg, less alcohol etc etc. I wouldn’t have had any of this without good ol’ nicotine.
From my discussions with the diagnosing psychiatrist, this is a relatively common thing amongst folks with ADHD.
There are a number of studies that suggest Nicotine’s potential usefulness in “neurospicy” people:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5758075/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8741955/
One study suggested that poor cognitive performance overall being a good predictor for relapse among smokers could actually be explained by rhe fact that nicotine being a stimulant has wide ranging helpful effects for cognitive function:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6018192/
ADHD or not I can certainly relate. If I had to put a word to how I felt off nicotine, I’d say I primarily just felt like I was dumb.
Here’s also a science direct article that mentions cites a range of studies, including on that of its positive effects on people with Alzheimer’s;
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S027858462300009X
Drugs are drugs. YMMV. Assuming that chemical X is always bad when this isn’t the case isn’t useful to a productive discussion. Even if you want to dissuade people from nicotine absolutely - an approach that works far better to actually getting people on board is being honest.
On Reddit, subs like quitvaping and the caffeine quitting one are full of misinformation that is transparently a bunch of people RPing the war on drugs infomercials of the late 80s, not much different from the semen retention pseudoscience folks.
But also don’t smoke. Obligatory disclaimer but Inhaling combustion smoke just isn’t worth any benefit of anything, not nicotine, not devil’s lettuce.
Vaping is far far safer and so far is not known to cause any issues, (unless of course you count the tainted dark market unregulated american weed vapes which will give you popcorn lung), though as always, we can’t be sure, so best use something like patches.
You mentioned it turns out you have ADHD (turns out so do i) and that you began medication for that and it reads that this medication began at around the same time as you started on nicotine again.
I am inclined to ask the question. Do you think perhaps you are associating the effects of the ADHD treatment to nicotine use?
There certainly are some documented benefits to nicotine use. And much of what you say is verifiable. However, many of the benefits you describe can be associated with the treatment of ADHD aswell.
I accept i dont know your personal situation. I only read your comment and noticed the timing seemed to be a bit close.
On the subject of vaping, i personally experienced some sticky phlegm and trouble coughing this up as well as issues with lung capacity and the dependance on the nicotine made me extremely irritable and unable to concentrate until i vaped.
Also it takes longer than a few months to break a nicotine addiction. I still uphold the idea that there may have been some withdrawal going on there.
However i am happy to conceed the point if you genuinely disagree. As i said i have no idea about your personal situation.
No, there was at least a few months between these two events. I should’ve phrased it better.
No. They’re wildly different in feel. I can tell when my meds wear off and when they kick in most days. That’s why I like having both.
This is far more likely due to the fact you used to smoke. I have anecdotally heard of some people who have issues with feeling like their throat is irritated, but they usually have crazy setups, like 300w 4-coil 0.24ohm temple RDAs with 1.5mg nic on a noisy cricket II in series or w/e. I have a hunch that the reason for it. Those were fun AF but I wouldn’t use it long term, it’s the equivalent of thinking that because a bar of chocolate doesn’t hurt you, then neither can a giant dump truck.
I’ve long switched to the rechargable elfbars with high strength (relatively) nic salts and low vapour volume which I’ve had no issues with.
That’s true for sure. If I know I’m not gonna be able to vape I just use nicotine patches, I have no psychological addiction to vaping itself, only a physiological dependency on nicotine, if the patches match my nicotine intake levels, then I tend to forget vaping is even a thing at all haha.
Yes, in terms of cravings, and those did pass actually, but in terms of such acute withdrawal effects? Nah - something is definitely going on there that wasn’t just pure withdrawals.
You do now that I wrote it out :)
Either way, have a good day!
The guy wasn’t talking about vaping though, but smoking. The one we know for sure gives you a ton of issues and health problems.
Whilst I agree it’s not a great analogy for right wing beliefs, I’d say it works as a good analogy for incel behaviour. I knew a guy who had fallen into that trap but managed to find his way out. When I asked him about it, he said it helped him cope, that it was easier to believe that it wasn’t his fault things were so shitty.
I really respect how he was able to realise that the things he and the people around him were saying was bullshit, and it made me realise that a lot of these people are being taken advantage of by “influencers” spewing this harmful rhetoric.