Seventy-seven percent of middle-age Americans (35-54 years old) say they want to return to a time before society was “plugged in,” meaning a time before there was widespread internet and cell phone usage. As told by a new Harris Poll (via Fast Company), 63% of younger folks (18-34 years old) were also keen on returning to a pre-plugged-in world, despite that being a world they largely never had a chance to occupy.
I call BS. I think this is something that people like to think that they believe, but they really don’t.
The first time they found themselves standing in the kitchen and thinking, “How long am I supposed to cook chicken?” and realizing the only way to find out is to clean up, get dressed, drive down to the bookstore and find a cooking-for-beginners book (or, if they’re lucky and know somebody who would know the answer, they could try to call them, but it would only work if that person was home and able to hear their landline and felt like gambling on answering an unknown call - unless they maybe had caller ID), they’ll be right back on board with the digital age.
Like, go watch early-seasons episodes of The X-Files and realize how many of the plot lines only work because the show started in a time that was pre-mobile phones, and then realize that kind of hilariously stupid and inconvenient situation was just, like, everyday life for everybody not so very long ago. Plan to meet a friend for lunch but they don’t show up? You can decide to wait and risk eating alone, or go home, because there’s literally no way to find out if they’re just running a little late or if they’re completely unable to come or what.
Sure, social media is a bit of a hellscape, but there is so much convenience that people take for granted that comes from cell phones and internet. I just do not believe more than a single-digit percentage of people would seriously enjoy going back for more than a few days, tops. No more than a camping trip.
Did you mean ride their bike to the library? Yeah. You’re right on the money.
Also cars were much less reliable back then. Nothing like breaking down again and walking to a payphone… and that’s just the beginning.Perhaps the key is keeping off of social media when you are recognizing it is making you feel bad. I really started having a negative experience with the facebook/Instagram stuff, but I have also found that more text based stuff that is discussion oriented doest make me feel bad. It does seem that the spulsucking stuff is key to making a platform profitable though. Oh well… I guess I will just have to keep using non profitable platforms.
I bet this is more about the stress of being constantly available to your boss, your parents, your teachers, your neediest friends than about wanting a world without technology.
Euros don’t have to deal with that shit because they are smart enough to organize enough to end that crap.
I think you’re right on the money, I recently took a vacation and i had the luxury to turn everything off I wanted and truly enjoy it, most Americans can’t do that.
I think it’s both that and not having real community ties. We don’t form close associations with each other like back when we had town events, neighborhood gatherings, people belonged to more clubs, recreational groups, labor unions, etc.
I wonder if there was an attempt to ask people about television, too.
True. Though we’re blaming the wrong thing in that case, we don’t have town events and neighborhood gatherings because local communities don’t have the money or a set town space anymore since the public square has been corporatized over the last few decades. Everything’s been monetized, loitering laws have criminalized just hanging out. Real life has the same problem the internet has.
Agreed. I think it’s more that we have been fooled on a superficial level into thinking that online interactions have filled the void (we’re on “social media” after all). So we still recognize that there’s something profound missing from our lives, but what that thing actually is has become kind of obfuscated. The dilemma then becomes whether to 1. blame technology, or 2. blame ourselves individually (“there must just be something wrong with me”). And either way it leads away from the radical solution of rebuilding those local, deep connections with our communities.
Do people really want to go back to the dark ages before Wikipedia existed? I know I don’t. Knowledge is power, and the Internet is a treasure trove of it, if you know where to look.
That said, I do want to go back to computers that obeyed only their users and no one else. Malicious hardware like TPM and Pluton is really scary.
As much as I share your centiment about tech. I don’t quite realize how is TPM scary? It physically separates security important operation from the main CPU.
It doesn’t obey the user. There is no way for the user to examine the keys stored in it. The entire concept of remote attestation is disobedient to the user. And so on.
The people who do don’t do research or use the internet to learn about stuff. Or just do “research” on Youtube/social media.
I interpret this as really “people want to go back to a time before income inequality had ramped up as much as it has” but in their minds the overall feeling that the US is worse now for the non-elites is associated with other things
I think this is a part of it. Also, sprinkle in a good amount of wanting to go back to being younger.
But yeah, the golden era of the internet (whichever you deem that to be) felt way less fucky than what we’re dealing with now.
The people who think this apparently think the middle class lived differently than they actually did in the 1970s. I am solidly poor and lower class and I live better than middle class people did then.
Servers and service workers weren’t saving up and flying to Europe or South America back then.
And while poverty has increased and the middle class has shrunk, that isn’t necessarily because of income inequality. They are two different things. There is not a set amount of money or wealth that is divided up.Servers and service workers weren’t saving up and flying to Europe or South America back then.
They still aren’t. They’re barely keeping roofs over their heads, let alone taking expensive vacations.
And while poverty has increased and the middle class has shrunk, that isn’t necessarily because of income inequality.
I can’t think of any other plausible explanation.
I worked as a server and in coffee shops and yes, they most certainly are. Not all, but plenty. People generally fly to other countries much, much more than they used to. It’s not just the wealthy any more, at all.
undefined> I can’t think of any other plausible explanation.
Housing is scarce and much more expensive for starters. Middle class people like using housing as an investment and vote to keep housing scarce because of that. It’s not just the .1% that are voting for those policies.
China has a whole lot more income inequality too but much less poverty and a much larger middle class than before. The world as a whole does. Those two dynamics are not that related. Income inequality can grow whether the middle class is growing or not and can grow or decline whether there are more people in poverty or less.
This is also pretty common. People tend to think like that about everything they had in their formative years.
It’s nostalgia plus a realization of how entrenched tech bureocratic processes have penetrated their lives, oftentimes making them worse, not better (many of the improvements are taken for granted).
But my point is you can take this “old times were better” in most of every case when doing these surveys. About music, TV and everything.
What people really want are the benefits without some of the cons that they’ve very willingly accepted out of laziness and/or ignorance.
They’ve lost a ton of privacy and rights and ability to discourse and act by being so heavily surveilled and “panopticon’d” into superficial uniformity of opinion.
Many of the things they complain about they can still do “non tech/non online” but it requires more effort than pretending that there should be just one way so they don’t have to choose.
Do people not realize they can just log off? Go watch TV, it’s still there. Turn off your phone, it has a power button. Read a book or go outside. None of the pre-internet options have gone away.
I mean, yes, that is true for your spare time. But with the way things are working now, everything has to happen immediately, you might feel you need to be available 24/7, even if you don’t technically.
Work in general is more fast-paced because of it (emails and phone calls over snail mail), everything you do is attached to your phone making it difficult to turn it off (banking, cards, travel apps, dating apps etc).
In the purest sense, yes, you can take breaks from it all, but it’s still there, and while I don’t think it’ll happen anytime soon, I do believe we’d benefit as a society from being less chronically online (I say writing this on an app for a federated social media site, but y’know, small steps).
That’s a discussion about working conditions. Europeans aren’t having to put up with being available after work hours. Sane workplaces in the US don’t do that either.
I think you misunderstood me, I didn’t talk about doing work in your spare time. I’m saying because of technology, when you’re at work everything is more fast-paced, which I think contributes to feeling more stressed in your spare time.
Couple that with everything important being attached to your device, including addicting apps like TikTok (for some, not me personally), and it can become a difficult habit to break, because you’re forced to still engage with your phone for various but important reasons.
Maybe I’m just lucky, but I’ve kept office hours for the totality of my career thus far, nearly 25 years. Most of my colleagues do as well. We all understand that we have lives outside of work, and that those lives take precedence. So long as we all get our shit done, nobody much cares about when you’re clocked in and when you’re not, outside of core hours (around 10 to 3 each day). If we want to turn off our phones, nobody much gives a shit so long as we’re back on the chat the next day.
It is difficult. Using corporate technology is easy and addictive. Not everybody is strong enough to escape from this comfort.
“middle-age Americans (35-54 years old)”
35 is middle-aged??
…my bones hurt, now.
I’m 36. Been feeling midlife crisis-y for at least a year. My body’s on the decline (not bad but I obviously passed my peak), I’m terrified of illness, time feels like it has truly shifted into high gear. I’ve just been trying to embrace my middle age lol
Bloody hell. I’m 34 and might be in the best shape I’ve ever been since I changed my diet and started regularly swimming. My only regret is I waited until a couple of years ago.
Swimming is such a good exercise. Nothing else hits so many muscle groups and does cardio at the same time.
I’ve stayed in relatively healthy shape, so I’m just starting to notice that everything is starting to feel…stiffer, primarily. I can’t run and jump with the same effortlessness I always could before.
American healthcare.
34, here. I’m still a youth!! XD
Amen to that sister!
I like the internet. It’s been integral in my life becoming myself. I’ve met some of my favorite people through it.
It’s my hope that the era of social media comes to an end and the internet transitions back to how it used to be pre 2008 or so (iPhone and Facebook changed things), less centralized and all-consuming. A return to smaller communities as opposed to these larger algorithmic, advertiser-servicing platforms. Discord servers and focused forums. Communities of friends over public places to chase clout. In addition to handy services like shopping, banking, maps, etc. In essence, the internet as a tool rather than a social expectation. Because in many ways it is a really powerful tool, and I don’t want to see that go away and I don’t think it ever will at this point.
There are cracks showing in the social media model, Twitter and reddit in particular at the moment, but it yet remains a hope that we can turn it back to a more positive thing in our lives.
Not to mention facebook the company (now meta) has been struggling too, losing ~75% of its market cap in the last few years… finally.
I agree with the commenters who said people miss certain things but forget about convenience of the connected world. I wanted to add that people likely misattribute their nostalgia to unconnected world because they were kids. It felt great being a kid not because we were pre-internet, but because we were kids. We had no bills to worry about. We’d always have food. And that was the only food we ever knew about so we loved it. Our worries were to just have enough time in the day to play all the cool things with friends and explore the world. We didn’t feel guilty for just playing video games the whole day or hanging out with friends the whole day. Our bodies could fall from a tree and our bruises would heal in a week. We’d find a motherfucking ant and be fascinated by it for hours! Have you tried staring at ants now? It’s mindnumbingly boring. Of course we miss the way we felt when we were kids. Technology ha nothing to do with it. Every generation misses being a kid.
I like having the internet and technology. It’s the abusive use of it that I don’t like.I am also one who wishes phones were of no necessary use. Why do I need a phone number to sign up to an online service? Why must I have an email address and internet access just to see what lab results came in from the doctor’s office? What use is my email address being “real” to some online community and services? I would be okay in a world where the phone and emails were just a nice thing to have and not required. I understand that everyone is saying “just turn off the phone, watch tv, unplug the computer”… But with how just about every company in the world requires this to even function, it’s a lot easier said than done. I think the real thing folks on surveys like this are looking for is a world where the internet, phones, computers, etc are nice to have but not needed to live a life. Or maybe I’m just unique in how I feel, dunno, just had to share my thoughts lol.
For real. I remember when I quit Facebook I stopped getting invited to things because people would just make FB events and call it good. Like close friends wouldn’t even realize I didn’t know about an event. Even now there’s an outdoor events group I wanted to join but they only organize on Facebook and I don’t want to make an account.
(TDLR: Technology (in its infancy) was something new, exciting, fun and enjoyable. Today, it is manifested more as an overlord whose primary capacity is to spy, intrude and take your personal information in order that they might gain from it.)
I grew up in a world before all of the modern day technology took over. They were good times, but when technology did eventually begin to develop, it effects were initially benign. It was initially adopted by those who were considered ‘geeks’ and people who were willing to spend money on it (even IBM clones such as the Tandy 1000 were going for $1,000 back in the day).
I remember when pagers were coming on the scene and allowed people to reach out to each other if they weren’t at home or at work (which were the only places they had access to a reachable phone number). It gave greater freedom for those who were in positions where they were on call 24x7 - it allowed them to go places and still be reachable instead of being stuck at home and waiting for a phone call that might never come.
Of course, things grew from there which provided many other benefits including access to a huge repository of information. Nowadays, that access to information has become a means of harvesting information from the very individual seeking to obtain it. The innocence of what was once revolutionary has been been upended by and ideology that has figured out and embraced how to consume its own consumers.
I spend more time today figuring out how to keep my data and personal information private and secure. Using Linux on my computer, running GrapheneOS on my phone as well as other considerations all in an attempt to keep at bay invasive companies and their ever evolving techniques in order to pry and spy upon me. It’s a shame that what was once fun and exciting is now something to be feared.
Today, it is manifested more as an overlord whose primary capacity is to spy, intrude and take your personal information in order that they might gain from it.
In other words, it’s not so much technology that’s the problem, but capitalism.
It’s not so much capitalism as it is a weakness of human nature. There are plenty of non-capitalist governments that desire to control, spy and manipulate their citizens.
No, there aren’t. So called “socialist” or “communist” governments of countries are 100% capitalist. Capitalism is defined by the relations of production, not what a government or political party calls itself.
That isn’t true. I use almost none of the large tech; no Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Google, or AirBnB. I pay the massive $12 a year for email that doesn’t scrape data because my privacy is worth it. It isn’t difficult, you just have to value your privacy and quality of life.
People prefer convenience, just like they choose fast food and processed food rather than cooking real food.
See y’all on @piracy.
No, people choose to give up privacy for convenience. I use almost none of the large tech companies. No Google, Facebook, Microsoft, AirBnB, or Apple. I use Amazon once a year or two.
You don’t need it; people just care more about convenience, just like they choose fast food and processed food over cooking real food.I use them even less than that. But I’m not sure what your point is. My individual choice to use the services of big tech companies as little as possible has little to no bearing on whether they force themselves onto society, and give many people little choice in whether or not to use them.
I mean, I also try to get a new phone as rarely as possible, but my ISP requires me to use one—and not just any, but a new model (within the last 2 years) of “smart” phone that their own proprietary app supports—just to change the security settings on my router. And that is the most minimal example of how corporations constrain society to choices that benefit them and not us.
You can’t use your own router? That’s insane anyway. Changing the security settings by app seems like the opposite of security.
I understand what you’re saying but it doesn’t negate what I said. I have email, internet connectivity, and access to information and services.
Having a smartphone doesn’t mean you are forced to use it for Gmail and Facebook. I rarely use the internet features on my smartphone and manage quite well. I think people have allowed themselves to get accustomed to a lot of unnecessary shit.Sure. I largely agree. I think, though, that we need to recognize the systemic and economic pressures that result in that, not boil everything down to InDiViDuaL ReSpoNsiBiLiTy.
I agree and don’t think everything boils down to individual responsibility. That said, unless you want some elites deciding what’s best for all of us plebs, we have to make certain choices. And the people using services aren’t going to vote in the people who will tell them they can’t use them any more than people with low mpg cars and trucks are going to vote for people who will pass a carbon tax.
New communications tech is always disruptive. People rail against social media, for good reason. But the internet is far less disruptive, at least in the negative sense, than the printing press was. At least so far. Knock on wood. Not that Russia isn’t trying.
Why can’t you use your own router? Having to use their router is a huge privacy risk. Yeah, ISPs can already know your internet data but now they’ve got access to your device data too.
Yeah. I agree. Unfortunately this ISP sucks, and it’s part of the contract. Too bad I don’t have other choices at the moment.
Unfortunately this ISP sucks, and it’s part of the contract.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-76/subpart-P/section-76.1201
https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2016/db0510/DA-16-512A1.pdf
It’s unenforceable. FCC has mandated that users can supply their own modems and routers (including if the modem is provided for free). They must allow it. You can start an informal complaint with the FCC if they’re claiming that you must use their equipment. Usually gets the companies gears turning on the matter.
I have trying to find the poll by following link and found nothing but this.
According to a new Harris Poll shared exclusively with Fast Company
So there is no actual source, no ways to check if the poll actually exist or not, no way to check if poll’s question phrased in a way to get certain response, how many actually responded to the poll, etc. And, compare to most big news published poll result, a confidence and margin of error.
There for, I simply view this as click bait article to generate engagement, which it did.
It’s exactly counter to established research that places huge values on internet enables services.
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/how-much-are-search-engines-worth-to-you
18k per year valued for search engines, 9k a year for email and 4K a year for maps.
Of course framing might be slightly different, but getting people to saying thing is very different than getting people to put money where their mouth is. I would much rather trust the dollar signal, especially in the US.
Eh. I like the internet and the connections it allows us to form. I think internet access for all is a good thing.
I do miss a time when cellphones weren’t ubiquitous, though. They have their purpose but there’s a certain social expectation to always be available, and I think that is a bad thing. I miss disconnecting. I guess, in principle, I could literally just do that.
I don’t think people actually would, if push came to shove. They’re just expressing nostalgia for a simpler time, which is pretty easy to understand, given all the dystopian effects of social media and smartphones.
I think smartphones have done a lot of harm, but they’ve still done far more good, which is why we use them. Especially in poorer countries where smartphones are often people’s only access to the internet.
That said, there’s nothing stopping any of these people in the article from being the change they want to see in the world. Not to send anybody to Reddit, but r/dumbphones is a fast growing subreddit for people that want to try that. A lot of the users are Gen Z who never got to try them and want to give it a whirl.
This is a chicken and egg problem, today’s Web is so horrible exactly because most of the boors in it treat it with disgust from the very first moment and try to avoid choices, thus make the worst choices possible.
I mean, it’s a golden rule - if you don’t know what to do, do something. They don’t out of fear, just consume what they are being given, which is the very thing they should fear.
Yeah, I think people forgot how terrible it was before email, gps, and etc.
Remember having to find the yellow book to call a plumber only to not get anything after trying 5 numbers? Oh wait, you don’t know how bad they’ll be because there are no online reviews. Memos from your boss via sticky notes? Faxing shit over and over again?
I mean, this study says it all, people need to be paid almost 20k to not use any online search for a year, almost 9k to not use email in a year. These services provide huge value for us in our daily lives. https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/how-much-are-search-engines-worth-to-you
It wasn’t that terrible but it was definitely slower. Some things for sure sucked. Now totally different things suck.
If you are longing for a world that you never lived in, there’s probably some “grass is greener on the other side” in play. The world before smart phones was considerably worse. I bet that most of the people who are asking for this don’t know how to read a paper map and have never seen a phone book. They aren’t considering getting lost or into a car accident and needing to find the nearest house to ask a stranger to call emergency services on their land line.
The good news is that, if you don’t want to use a smart phone, you can just… not. Nobody is forcing you. If you really wanted a world without smart phones you would already not be using one!
Nobody is forcing you.
That is not really true, I mean depending on your definition of “forcing”. Okay, it’s true, nobody is holding a gun to your head.
But depending on where you live, it may be impossible to use a taxi. It would be impossible to work at a lot of workplaces. I work at a university where thankfully faculty are not required to own a smartphone, but students are (if you do not check in for attendance with the university’s app, you automatically fail the course). Soon here it might be impossible to have a bank account without a smartphone app. Any event that requires tickets, forget about it. We’re also getting closer to it being a requirement to see a doctor (some doctor’s offices here already do not allow any patients that haven’t installed their app, and the number is growing).
There’s a lot of soft pressure, too. The supermarket by us doesn’t require you to install their app. You can pay cash without a smartphone…if you’re willing to pay 2x the usual amount for groceries (which are already quite expensive).
undefined> if you do not check in for attendance with the university’s app, you automatically fail the course
That is completely fucked. I would refuse out of principle and demand an alternative based on my creed/religion. Linux is a religion, right?
That’s not entirely true. I have twice in the last year had no other option than to install an app to use tickets I purchased. An many medical services refuse to do anything that isn’t online or via an app. It’s getting to be harder and harder to not need a mobile device. It’s getting pretty stupid. Theine has been crossed already. I lived half my life without internet, I’d survive without it. But the world isn’t headed in a direction that makes it feesible anymore unless you just completely check out.
Seems reasonable to me. I’m in the upper end of that range, center GenX (yes I know you don’t remember us). I vary between wanting it to be 1970-2000. 1990 was nice, good industrial music, many of the old blues musicians were still alive & playing, computers were still fun, BBS’s, the early non-shitty Internet, pagers and car phones if you wanted to be reachable that much, but you could just NOT be. Go out for cigarettes and never come back.
Anyone who thinks this panopticon hellscape we live in is better, is nuts.
How much did a computer cost back then? How much were the first graphics cards? How compatible were computers with each other? How much did one album cost on CD? How easy was it to obtain information on a problem? How easy was it to price compare things between stores?
The issue is social media and allowing everyone to voice their immediate thoughts on things in pseudo anonymity. It’s also the tendency of people to look at people’s fake persona and then compare themselves to it. I could rent a Lambo for the weekend and use a filter like I’m actually fit and still have hair and make all my former classmates insecure because they never see me in person. That’s the shit everyone wants to go away, they don’t want to give up Spotify.
People forget, or just weren’t around, when only the rich had a mobile phone the size of waffle iron and it just made expensive calls. Even early cells had exorbitant rates for long distance conversations between states, so we had to wait until night when it was more affordable to talk. If I wanted to watch a specific movie, I needed a credit card with a $500 hold to rent a VHS player for 24 hours, and hope that Teenage Mutant Turtles wasn’t on a wait list. Ask Jeeves was better than encyclopedia brittanica, but digging deep required a trip to the public library. And scanning, copying, or printing anything meant driving to Kinkos with your checkbook ready. Anyone else remember pulling up MapQuest and writing down the directions before going someplace new?
Reminiscers can unplug, but I’m keeping my on-demand movies, cheap phone rates, endless knowledge, GPS, and streaming music.
In 1991 I lived in a small town. You had to sign up at the library for computer time. Once or twice a month I had the opportunity to walk to the library and play Oregon trail on an apple IIe with a green monochrome monitor. We were also fortunate enough to have a lab at school with the same apple IIe computers and got to use them every once in awhile. There wasn’t any Internet for us to use, I don’t recall anybody mentioning BBS or fido net or anything like that.
The most advanced computer I think I saw was in the school library. It had a cartridge based CD rom drive. I remember how awesome that was when I saw it.
It wasn’t until around 95’ that the internet really took off and we were actually able to use it. It was also around that time that we even got our first family computer and dial up service.
Before that we had an NES, SNES, and og Grey Gameboy. We also borrowed a commodore 64 for a time.
Before that we were typing essays on the electric typewriter we had.
I know everyone thinks all this retro tech is so cool. The thing is, as a kid, I had no idea this stuff even existed other than basic VHS players and Nintendo because things like PCs and laserdisc players were insanely expensive.
I’m sure there’s stuff today that I’m blissfully unaware of because it’s so far out of my price range that I have no business knowing about it anyway.
undefined> The issue is social media and allowing everyone to voice their immediate thoughts on things in pseudo anonymity. It’s also the tendency of people to look at people’s fake persona and then compare themselves to it. I could rent a Lambo for the weekend and use a filter like I’m actually fit and still have hair and make all my former classmates insecure because they never see me in person. That’s the shit everyone wants to go away, they don’t want to give up Spotify.
I understood that dynamic was toxic when Facebutt was in its infancy and noped out of that world before making an account.
And I’m glad to give up Spotify or rather, not use it in the first place. I pay artists for their music on their website, or as close to it as I can, or pirate it if they are dead or complete dicks.
I can’t help but feel like a lot of the “the internet was better back in the day” is rose colored glasses. Things were just as fragmented, but were even less welcoming to our groups, there was more questionable content that people were trying to trick you into viewing. It definitely wasn’t all bad, but it feels like it’s coming from the same impulse as every other “things were better back in my day.”
A key difference is that nothing was being shoved at you as soon as you got up from the computer.
You can always put your phone down. I also get the pressure to return a text/dm right away, but as far as I can tell no one that I actually want to talk to expects that immediate response.
So what if some town somewhere were to ban cellphones?
There’s the radio-free zone in VA that has no cell service or wireless devices. You could always live there.
I bet it’s cheap too. I wonder if people have ethernet ports in their homes you can just plug into instead of wifi.
I think so. And they use old school wired phones. No wireless speakers.
There’s a service that scans the area and looks for any radio sources. It’s crazy.
