I’m not like a super political person, and from my understanding its the idea that if I make a $10 thing for the bossman, but only get $1 that is wage theft?
But like, when I took the job I knew how much I was going to make?
Or is it like, people are literally not getting their paychecks?
I’m slightly inebreated, lazy, and don’t want my algorithms to start becoming politically charged from googling and youtubing this. I’m already collapse aware and my mental health is ultra fragile.
Help me Lemmy wan kenobi, you’re my only hope.
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Here is what I stole from the internet for you:
Wage theft occurs when employers do not pay workers according to the law. Examples of wage theft include paying less than minimum wage, not paying workers overtime, not allowing workers to take meal and rest breaks, requiring off the clock work, or taking workers’ tips.
One of the most common versions I’ve seen is managers being able to “correct” employees punch in and punch out times. Useful if you forgot to clock in. However, often used to always chop off extra minutes accumulated from being there a few minutes early (“on time”) and staying a few minutes past your shift (until someone else can take over). But don’t you dare to be a few minutes late because you will get some points on your record and risk disciplinary actions.
I fucking hated retail jobs.
A variant of this is time clocks that round your clock in and out, but not just to the nearest 15 min: clock in is rounded forward, while clock out is rounded backwards.
So 9:01-4:59 would end up paying you for 9:15-4:45. 28min stolen. At 15$/hr thats over $1800 per year.
I’ve had this happen in a job. People would just aticipate it. They would be like “oh shit, it’s 9:01. I’ll be taking a shit first” or they’d smoke or drink coffee or whatever before clocking out. It was a mutual destruction kind of thing. You fuck me, i fuck you.
Got a manager fired when I told a couple people he was chopping off 5 minutes from each shift. Apparently I’m one of the few people who ever checks time sheets.
I convinced them to start filming themselves clocking in and out. Phones are permitted as long as you don’t pull them out on the floor. Offices are a-OK. So the camera captures your number input and displays the time in/out in big pretty easily distinguishable numbers.
Called up the district manager, sent a single email with all the videos and after-payday time sheets, and within two hours the district manager was in the store (which means she was already nearby or she was hauling ass to try and do damage control)
The following five minutes can be summed up with the now-former manager being escorted out by two of the largest stock room guys on the clock and the DM escorting the manager out of the building, all the contents of his desk and computer being hastily stuffed in a box and mailed to a corporate office, the DM begging us not to sue the company, giving most of us the recorded promise of a 10% raise in addition to all backpay and a week of PTO “starting today”
Now to modern me, this all screams “you have a legitimate lawsuit that could blow up in our faces and balloon to other stores so we’re trying to cover it up and get you away from other employees and keep you from talking about it” but nobody else seemed to care and i am not the man I am today. Potentially fighting a solo lawsuit against a multi-billion dollar corporation isn’t exactly the same thing as going over your managers head to get them in trouble.
The replacement manager had no problem shittalking the previous, criminal one. Apparently his reasoning was “it’s the time it takes to put on your uniform which is unpaid because it’s unproductive” which… Yikes. Luckily corporate didn’t agree, at least at the time.
For the record, everyone came in dress code. “putting on the uniform” required putting your lanyard badge on.
15 seconds if you’re taking your time.
Last I checked, by law you are supposed to receive pay for any actions taken on site that are directly work related. Which includes getting into uniform. So that dude’s reasoning was bunk anyway.
Yes, that would be the entire reason the whole thing happened.
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I am also aware of a manager at my job who got fired for playing those games. Fired and security-escorted out.
Knowing the department director and how she felt about the employees, she was probably enraged when she found out what the manager under her was doing.
Here it’s very difficult to fire an employee after the probationary period, but managers are relatively easy to fire. There’s a three strikes rule for managers. Whenever a PIA manager starts being extra nice to everyone, you know they just got reported to HR for a second time.
Screwing with time cards in the U.S. is extra double bad because of federal law.
If the employee can prove the manager has done it, they’ve proven that their employer is both guilty of wage theft, and also that they’ve destroyed the records showing how much time you actually worked. So usually the employees get to say how much they are owed, and the employer has no way to argue against it.
If I recall correctly, if it was an honest mistake, the employer has to pay back two times what was owed. If it was intentional, then they have to pay back three times what was owed.
There aren’t many worker protections in the U.S., but that particular set of laws is ok. Of course, there could be additional protections in state or local laws.
Edit: clarification and typo.
Retail truly is hell. A previous employer chopped off our time after closing, regardless of how much time it took to close the place. In the two years and some I spent there, including 9 months full time, they must have saved hundreds of hours in unpaid wages just in the 3 stores I worked at. That was a major chain, mind you. It’s a good example of wage theft for OP, actually lol
Rest assured that when I was closing at 9PM by myself, by 9:01 I had signed off on the day’s deposit, and by 9:02 I was out of there…
Report them to the Department of Labor. Give as much info as you can and they will follow up in the investigation and litigation.
If all goes well, you don’t have to do much and when the investigation and litigation is done you’ll get paid out.
Oh, after they moved me from store to store then fired me, I did. I’m in Quebec, Canada, so it’s through the CNESST. They’re all too happy to take cases against this specific employer. Still, after 2 years of back and forth and a depresssion later, I resorted to an undisclosed settlement.
Even if the institutions exist to go after a previous employer, it’s also not always doable. And you gain a big resume gap unless you want to keep talking about that ex-employer you sued…
God that pissed me right off. When I first started working in my first ‘proper’ job (fast food) I always liked to be 5 minutes early and not head to clock out until after my shift finished. We could clock in or out up to 5 minutes before or after our scheduled start/finish times.
One day I clocked in 2 minutes early and out a whole 3 minutes after I was meant to. then that night I got a notification my shift start and end times had been adjusted. Apparently that day the big manager was reviewing all clock times and decided the 5 minutes of overtime was too much. It’s not like I wasn’t working or anything either, I started serving people as soon as I’d clocked on and I was only clocking out late because I was busy making people’s food (because for some funny reason you can’t just up and leave in the middle of assembling a burger)
From then on I wouldn’t walk in until 1 minute before my shift was due to start and would stop working 5 minutes before my shift was due to finish to walk to the break room, grab my bag and leisurely stroll around to say goodbye to everyone before clicking out the exact minute I was due to finish, because fuck you. What kind of stinge bag removes 5 minutes of overtime? What kind of stinge bag even tracks 5 minutes of overtime??
They should track 5 minutes of overtime, because you worked it and God dammit you should be paid for it.
You explain it so simply, and yet I was so confused before hand, thank you so much, why is life so hard?
It can also include situations where the worker isn’t paid what was agreed.
For example, if you were going to have a 10% commission but the employer lowers this to 2% or nothing, or where a $30/hour rate magically becomes $15/hour after hiring.
They might legally be able to cut your pay by giving notice - this will depend on the jurisdiction. In other regimes, they essentially have to go through the full legal process to fire you.
Great answer.
I think one of the most common forms is when employers coerce employees to clock out before they’re actually done with work. Super common in places where employees need to do end-of-shift tasks like cleaning up their station, pass through security checkpoints, etc.
And employee misclassification. Uber owns their drivers a shit ton of stolen wages.
Some easy examples you can relate to:
- do you work overtime, even for a minute, and don’t get paid for it? Wage theft!
- does your company make fun of people using their allowed days off, making you not use them? Wage theft!
- does your company make you buy tools required for your job, because the ones available are shit or non existant? Wage theft!
- does your boss call you during your days off, holidays or vacations? Wage theft!
- are you assigned tasks that are more suited to a higher compensation level, but don’t see a dime? Wage theft!
- are your coffee and lunch breaks interrupted early or entirely canceled and not compensated? Again, wage theft!
While the examples you shared are shitty, some of them aren’t what articles/studies mean by wage theft. Usually it’s concrete cases where an employee works but isn’t paid - for example shaving hours down, “oh we pay in 15 minute increments” but the rounding is always in favor of the company, or conveniently but regularly missing a couple hours of OT.
Your definition is the stricter answer yes. Not getting paid overtime when you are legally suppose to, and penalizing people for taking PTO are too. The rest are a stretch that imo waters down the major ones.
It’s not really a political thing. It’s just the name of a specific type of crime.
From the employer: They aren’t paying you for the wages agreed on when you were hired for the hours you have worked. Usually in the form of just not calculating your hours correctly (IE you worked 40 hours, they only pay you for 30).
From the employee: Lying about the hours worked to get paid more than you should. (IE you worked 30 but claim to and get paid for 40).
The former happens a lot more than the latter. In fact, it’s America’s #1 crime.
It’s not really a political thing
Labor is extremely political.
Labor laws in the US are extremely weak. We don’t have many laws protecting us. We don’t have many unions. All of that has political causes.
Wage theft is not enforced the same way regular theft is. If you walked out of the store with $100 of stuff “you forgot” was in your pocket, you’d plausibly be cuffed and in jail. If your manager steals $100 because “he forgot” to submit the timesheet correctly, what’s going to happen? Probably nothing.
This has been the world for so long it feels normal and intuitive. Like, of course the cops will come and stop a theft! That’s like what they’re there for. But why don’t the cops come and stop “white collar” crime? Why don’t we have anything like that? Political reasons.
And even if you did report that they stole from you, a lot of that burden is on you… Do you know how to find a lawyer and file a law suit? Are you going to just be fired if they find out?
Personally, if I was on a jury for someone who beat the living shit out of their manager for stealing wages, I would nullify.
I think the idea is that “theft is not political”. Labor itself is not inherently political, but the fact that labor often not in a society that itself has unjust hierarchies is now political. The concept of “working at a task” is not political, but it can be.
That said, there’s one major group that cares about labor, cares about getting paid well, and doesn’t like people that steal money. And it’s sure as shit not the right wing.
Interesting, interesting, I appreciate the perspective that wage theft can be committed by employees, although I’d be comfortable committing wage theft against my company, if I was paid hourly, they fucking suck.
I’m not like a super political person, and from my understanding its the idea that if I make a $10 thing for the bossman, but only get $1 that is wage theft?
Wage theft is technically, when companies or bosses, managers, whatever, do not provide compensation to an employee that they are due. There’s lots of ways it happens - I work in contract security and a super common method is charging people for uniforms. In my state it’s straight up illegal to charge for uniforms, but they’re stealing money. SO the way that scam works is they take it out of your paycheck as a deduction; and then send that money to an account they control that nobody else is looking at.
Another way they do it is messing with people’s hours, shorting them time, giving it to a fake employee that nobody who merely looks at the books is going to notice. That actually happened at a competing company here. The manager suddenly decided to “retire” and then dropped off the radar for a few months when the union started asking questions. An hour or two, every few pay cycles nobody notices. but it adds up when when taking ten or fifteen hours a pay cycle spread across hundreds of employees.
Another way it happens is in restaurants where management takes tips. Especially when it’s integrated into a PoS system…
and then there’s always the wage theft that happens with undocumented people being vulnerable.
Wage theft is when they don’t pay what you agreed on, or are violating laws about things like overtime and minimum wage. For instance if they make you clock in and be basically at work but they’re not paying you, that’s wage theft. Or if they have you work 55 hours a week but don’t pay you time and a half for the extra 15 hours over 40, that’s wage theft.
That is wild, so many salary jobs act like you should work more than 40 hours. I even had a manager that said upper level employees should be willing to work more than 40 hours per week. What a cock wart.
It’s more complex for salary jobs and why sometimes it’s worse to go salary if you’re hourly. Some salaried positions are exempt from receiving overtime, some aren’t.
Obama tried to fix this. It was like a small bandaid that Trump ripped off
Wouldn’t the exemption be considered wage theft though? What makes this scenario more complex?
Wage theft is specifically referring to the crime of not paying an employee what they’re owed. If the law says that you don’t need to be paid for something specific, like overtime, due to being a salaried employee, then it’s not wage theft. If, however, you are an hourly employee and are not paid overtime for your hours over 40, that’s wage theft.
Another example is for waitstaff that have a lower minimum wage due to tips being expected. If your employer keeps tips and doesn’t pay you at least as much as regular minimum wage, that is also wage theft.
This is a much more legalese take, I feel like some folks would disagree in terms of the spirit of wage theft vs the letter of the concept. I like it though, I appreciate it, I appreciate you.
The laws are against the employee when it comes to salaried positions. Most jobs that pay a salary are exempt from overtime; only certain types of jobs qualify. However, due to lack of awareness, not paying overtime to a salaried employee who actually qualifies is probably a very common form of wage theft.
Btw, I’ve never heard wage theft used to refer to employees misreporting their hours. I’m not sure that’s a common usage of the term (kinda think it’s not).
That’s the most common way I’ve heard it used in business settings. So it’s very audience dependant.
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A contract for a salaried position may say something like “you will work 40 hours a week but you maybe have to work some moderate overtime to complete tasks at certain times throughout the year.” (Probably better worded than that) but that means they can expect you to work overtime every now and then if there is a deadline or a project that requires it. But if its every week or an unreasonable amount of overtime per week then you should be compensated with time in lieu or extra money. It all depends on your contract.
Many of these answers are great, thank you for being graet, lemmy is great.
A fair day’s work = a fair day’s pay
If you do more work you should get more pay.
If you do less work you should get less pay.
If you are paid less for doing the same amount of work, or if you do more work for the same amount of pay, then you’re no longer getting a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work.
Wage theft is serious business and it’s kind of insidious.
“hey I need you to stay on a couple hours after” then you’re paid the same amount as normal - wage theft
“you can’t leave till the next shift gets here” and you’re not paid for the time you wait - wage theft
“your wage is 25 an hour, that’s 200 a day, the hours are nine till five but most people do 8 till 6” - wage theft (the actual wage is 20 an hour)
“if there’s a dine and dash it comes from your paycheck” - wage theft
“you start at 12.50 an hour then go up to 25 after three months.” then at 2 months 3 weeks “sorry it didn’t work out, goodbye” - wage theft
Wage thieves usually target people that don’t know they’re being taken advantage of. Often people desparate for work, or not highly skilled, or just naive, or trusting. Hence it is (in my mind) predatory.
Fwiw time theft is the other side of the coin.
When you punch in at 8:47 every day and out at 4:47 and your boss changes it to 9:00 to 4:47. Probably most common. “Your shift didn’t start until 9.”
Deducting wages for things, pretty much ever, at all.
Bad math.
The thing I’m now realizing is that I too have been a victim of wage theft, but didn’t suspect anything under the guise of “the system is good numbers always go up YEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW”
Cheers to my sinking mental health yet again, I think I’ll name her the titanic fucking capitalist icebergs everywhere.
Your employer will never overpay you. They will underpay you.
Remember that when you make the decision about whether or not to say anything.
I see this quite often as a manager. Shift is 8-5, hour lunch. Per policy, deviance must be approved by the supervisor. I get people all the time clocking in at 740ish and not starting work until 815ish, circle jerk around the coffee pot. In fairness, I SHOULD dock that time, but I don’t. Write up for violating established policy. I had a guy a few days ago, clocked in at 8, text me at 815 that he is running late because he can’t find his clothes (what?!). Who’s stealing wages in this scenario?
In fairness, check with your dept of labor about what labor laws you would be violating. If you dock that time, your employees could make your life hell. And they’d be absolutely correct to do so, given that they are arriving when they arrive to perform work/shift related duties.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. Employees are clocking in early and not performing work related duties, and employees are clocking in before they even show up to work. What I meant by my last question is that employees are stealing wages. I know that won’t be popular, and it’s not at all to say that employers are worse at it, but your comment on the subject brought into mind because it’s definitely related.
Has your boss ever said something to you to the effect of “Hey I know you already clocked out but you forgot to do ___; can you knock that out for me real fast before you go home?”
If so, you’ve been the victim of wage theft. Wage theft isn’t not making the whole sum of the value you bring in to the company, it’s not getting any portion of the sum for which you are legally and ethically entitled to.
Cries in salaried worker
Correct. This is very situational also. I’m salary, my boss is great, if I have to do work on the weekend, like a site visit, he usually venmos me $2-300 on the spot. If he asks me to do something outside normal hours, or maybe even outside our work scope, 99% of the time it’s a yes. We’re a pretty solid group, we scratch each other’s backs for the sake of the clients in most cases. It all evens out in the end.
can you knock that out for me real fast
Yes, that’s wage theft, but I’m likely going to do that thing. But I would do such a thing with the expectation that I get my back scratched as well. Forgiveness for being late, fucking something up, whatever. In no case am I working more than 15 minutes without punching back in.
But if I don’t have that sort of relationship with my boss, or it’s a shitty company, hell no.
Also included are withholding tips from waitstaff, etc, since tips supposedly offset the lower hourly wages they’re paid.
Whoever explained this to me originally reallllllllly sucked at it
Well, there’s literal wage theft, which other folks have explained clearly here, then there’s figurative wage theft, such as artificially depressing wages in order to redirect money to executives that they couldn’t possibly spend nor reasonably need.
This sense of wage theft is more nebulous and therefore easier to be confused about. It wouldn’t surprise me if you asked ten people about got ten different answers about it. There’s nothing about my answer here that’s authoritative; it’s merely a short summary of how I understand the term as commonly used.
I really like your response, you seem like a kind warmhearted person, I wish you the best,
That’s kind of you to say, so thank you.
I’d consider not paying your wages adjusted to inflation as wage theft. If they’re not paying you at least that, they’re effectively paying you less every year.
I disagree - inflation is different to a contractual agreement.
Your agreement states (for example) $10 an hour. This is what was agreed to by both parties. The wider economy is out of the scope of most companies.
Take nearly anything else you own or could own - it doesn’t grow in value or size based on inflation either.
Huh? The things people do for that wage will certainly rise in price due to inflation. Interest on bank accounts usually correlates with inflation, house prices go up with inflation (if you own one, it’s value usually does too)… It’s usually only stuff that wears out quickly and/or electronics (stuff that has steep inherent value deprecation) that do not grow in value due to inflation.
If there was an agreement to match inflation and it wasn’t matched, then that would be wage theft. Lacking such an agreement, no, it’s just being a shitty company to work for, not wage theft.
One that isn’t discussed often is the difference between salary exempt and salary non-exempt. The exempt part being whether or not that employee is owed overtime.
Not all salary positions are.considered exempt from overtime. Only those whose position may be required outside business hours for the business to continue functioning. For example, most managers are considered exempt. If one of their reports calls out sick, they may need to work off the clock to make arrangements with another employee to cover.
However salary positions such as finance are considered non-exempt. All their job duties can be accomplished during business hours and there is no reason they would need to work off the clock to keep the business running.
So one example of wage theft is when a business classifies an employee as salary exempt making them work overtime and not paying them for it.
According to stats I’ve read for my state, most of wage theft is former employees, whether they quit or were terminated, not getting their final paycheck in the time frame dictated by law. I don’t really see this as wage theft, because IN MY EXPERIENCE, tracking down former employees can be difficult, even if they quit yesterday.
This NOT to say other forms of wage theft don’t happen maliciously.
Based on all the replies it really juist seems like this system is fucking shit at giving people a resource to live their damn lives.
https://youtu.be/ZLtzmRknRSU?si=iAgqiLlRH5Q83S9X I didn’t watch it yet but normally this channel is pretty good
This might help: https://youtu.be/ZLtzmRknRSU?si=cOkW4Z7QU9PyVV92
